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Is The Roman Catholic View of the Eucharist Supported by the Historical Evidence?
In Plain Site ^ | Jason Engwer

Posted on 02/20/2015 12:33:03 PM PST by RnMomof7

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To: elhombrelibre
You;ll use them like you don’t know how.

 

Priceless...


481 posted on 02/23/2015 11:20:33 AM PST by Elsie
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To: elhombrelibre

I’m going to have to take that back; the part about your parsing abilities.


482 posted on 02/23/2015 11:21:21 AM PST by Elsie
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Comment #483 Removed by Moderator

To: JAKraig
. I don’t see how these questions have anything to do with the discussion.

It's called CONTROL.

Who will call her from the tomb if YOU ain't a MORMON?

484 posted on 02/23/2015 11:23:14 AM PST by Elsie
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To: JAKraig
Catholics have a Pope who speaks for God on earth, Mormons have a Prophet who speaks for God on earth.

Which one is INFALLABLE?

485 posted on 02/23/2015 11:23:50 AM PST by Elsie
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To: JAKraig; IWONDR; WilliamRobert; teppe; StormPrepper
I think if more churches had a tithing settlement or something like it they could get rid of a lot of dissension in their ranks.

It's called CONTROL.


The Book that Mormons claim to venerate, KJV, (even though it is flawed) says...

2 Corinthians 9:7
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.


The Mormon 'doctrine' of a yearend settling up is NOT found even in the CATHOLIC religion.


I guess Rome MISSED something when compiling the bible.


But that's ok; for Joseph and his successors managed to incorporate it in the D&C's.

Somewhere.

Perhaps iwondr,williamrobert,teppe,stormprepper can show us where it is located.

486 posted on 02/23/2015 11:29:52 AM PST by Elsie
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Comment #487 Removed by Moderator

To: JAKraig; IWONDR; WilliamRobert; teppe; StormPrepper
... to incorporate it in the D&C's.

If not there; then SURELY it'll be found in the JST: the KJV that Joseph so dutifully CORRECTED under the Direct Command of GOD.

488 posted on 02/23/2015 11:31:19 AM PST by Elsie
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To: ealgeone
Are there saved Roman Catholics? Very possibly. However, those counting on Mary to help with their salvation, who appeal to Mary for their salvation, and who pray to Mary would be in doubt.

Likewise...


Are there saved Mormons? Very possibly. However, those counting on Joseph to help with their salvation, who appeal to Joseph for their salvation, and who pray to Joseph would be in doubt.

489 posted on 02/23/2015 11:32:45 AM PST by Elsie
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To: ealgeone
I've noted a small number of catholics on this board use the term "prot" as a means to diminish, put down, insult, etc, posters who are not catholic.

They keep on trying to get a rise; but I've not seen any results.

Oh well; it beats the boiling oil they USED to use with impunity!

490 posted on 02/23/2015 11:34:18 AM PST by Elsie
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To: rwa265
To not capitalize them shows a lack of respect for followers of those denominations.

There you go again; trying to make it seem like the PEOPLE are in error; instead of the ORGANIZATIONs; whose rules they choose to follow.

491 posted on 02/23/2015 11:35:59 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Ge0ffrey
The angel Gabriel didn’t say, “Mary, you’re already pregnant!”

The angel Gabriel DID say, “Mary, you’re gonna be pregnant!”

Mary would have looked a bit more stupid than Rome's caricature if she'd said, "No; I ain't!"

492 posted on 02/23/2015 11:37:59 AM PST by Elsie
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To: JAKraig; reaganaut; Godzilla; Sentinal
Mormons do not believe they are in any way saved by works.

By GOD! they'd BETTER do them WORKS or else they will NOT get to be in Heaven at the Top Level!

Read their documents!!!

493 posted on 02/23/2015 11:39:57 AM PST by Elsie
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To: JAKraig; reaganaut; Godzilla; Sentinal
Read their documents!!!

Number 3



Here is MORMONism's own creed:
 
 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541
 
 

  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
  10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith




Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

494 posted on 02/23/2015 11:46:06 AM PST by Elsie
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To: JAKraig
As far as this “many gods theme” that gets paraded around here.

Listen...

Is that a brass band I hear in the distance?


The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 


 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.



Read their documents...


495 posted on 02/23/2015 11:48:23 AM PST by Elsie
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To: elhombrelibre
Man, we know you by your fruits, mostly a scolding and self-righteous approach to anyone not accepting your dogma. You are not one who behaves like a Christian.

So true!

A 'christian' would NEVER say such nasty stuff!


 


 
Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23
 
  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
 


Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
 

And St. Paul chimes in...

Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
 


496 posted on 02/23/2015 11:50:05 AM PST by Elsie
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To: CynicalBear

A TRUE Christian would probably KNOW what is being talked about when FRUITS are mentioned.


497 posted on 02/23/2015 11:51:02 AM PST by Elsie
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To: elhombrelibre
The fruits are how you treat others.

Matthew 7:15-20 KJV
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.

I rest my case...

498 posted on 02/23/2015 11:52:36 AM PST by Elsie
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To: CpnHook
So, I ask again, why should we take anything else you claim as credible?

Jesus said that Pharisees are snakes.

You Catholics truly believe that; right?

499 posted on 02/23/2015 11:54:19 AM PST by Elsie
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To: CpnHook
>They contradict themselves on a host of issues.<

But not on the Eucharist.

You're 100% positive...no exceptions. ALL ECFs are in 100% agreement?

500 posted on 02/23/2015 12:20:08 PM PST by ealgeone
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