Is The Roman Catholic View of the Eucharist Supported by the Historical Evidence?

In Plain Site ^ | Jason Engwer

[Elsie]

When I see a TV preacher with an animated prayer and an 800 number on the screen to call to give donations I get turned off and think of rotten fruit.

HMMMmmm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithing_settlement

Temple Recommend Questions:

 1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

 5 Do you live the law of chastity?

 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

     Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

     Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

When churches do what they think will bring them the most money I have a hard time feeling their inspiration.

I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones.

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http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money

[Elsie]

(I'm trolling for English teachers.

I have a thing for them.)

[Elsie]

God, his teachings, the Bible, and the doctrines of my Church determine what is anathema.

I see...

[Elsie]

No, I won’t still try to remedy those who ignore the obvious.

Ok then.

[Elsie]

In post #430, what I mean to say is that what is anathema is not what I think it is. It’s determined outside of me.

So; you've no need to really think about it at all; for your chosen religion has told you what it means.

I see.

[Elsie]

Remember...

Folks without a valid TR; when they meet Joseph Smith; are gonna have to do a LOTSA 'splainin'!!!

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What Joseph Smith Means to Us  (From: various sources )

 

 

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

Remember...

Mormon folks who have NOT kept up with ALL the rules; will end up on Level Two: along with them Whores of Babylon!

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HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.

Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church.

Telestial - where unbelievers go

 

[elhombrelibre]

I still don't understand why you think a semicolon is the same as a comma. Do you know the difference? And the word "So" as used is not an interjection. You sentence also makes no sense. When one chooses a religion, he has thought about it; he has used reason.

I see you're going after the LDS folks now, too. Will you be getting to the Jews as well?

[elhombrelibre]

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/how-to-use-semicolons

[CynicalBear]

>>Please list for us, the other denominations....say in the year......oh....1037.....just the main ones is o.K.<<

The Ekklesia of Christ. It's built on the solid Rock of Christ with the foundation of the apostles started already in the first century of which all true believers are members. It's the only body of Christ. The Catholic Church is just a pagan imposter.

[rwa265]

I am overly cautious about saying what another FReeper will do or not do. The rules . . .

[Elsie]

You know what they say about Uncle Jack and his pony...

[Elsie]

I see you're going after the LDS folks now, too.

Parsing you're good at; comprehension not so much.

FOLKS are not bein' gone after; the HELLISH religion they choose to follow is.

[CynicalBear]

>>That the “Catholic” churches are the descendants of the church led by Peter seems to be true by evidence we see in historical records.<<

Whose historical records? Not actual documented historical records. If you're going by the fabricated records of the Catholic Church you're being duped.

Your obviously correct in that the shed blood of Christ and trust in Him alone is the only way to salvation.

There are however warnings in scripture about leaving that "first love". I suggested you read the letters to the seven churches found in Revelation. Incorporating pagan practices and beliefs were strongly condemned by God calling it "whoring around with other gods" and cause for being rejected. Adding rules and rituals were what Christ condemned the Pharisees for.

Carnal "good works" are not "fruit of the Spirit". I often think of Mother Teresa who by all carnal observation surely had "good works". She however believed that whether you were Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever was good enough. Those "good works" were not "fruit of the Holy Spirit".

Scripture tells us to correct and rebuke false teaching. If we don't and just allow it we are partakers of that error. God warns His people about false religions and to "come out of her" or they will partake of the plagues that will come to it.

These debates aren't simply about different paths to the same God. Love for others demands that we warn about errors that will result in Christ saying "I never knew you".

[rwa265]

Let me mull this over in my mind a bit.

The results for the 72 or 12 mention how Jesus sent them out on specific commissions.

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While you are mulling it over, remember that the 72 and the 12 completed their specific missions amd returned to Jesus.

When the apostles returned, they reported to Jesus what they had done. Luke 6:10

The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.” Luke 12:17

[Elsie]

 

 

 

 

Semicolons Create Variety

[elhombrelibre]

Obviously, you won’t. You;ll use them like you don’t know how.

[elhombrelibre]

No, I’ve no idea about your Uncle Jack and his pony.

[elhombrelibre]

Is Judaism a HELLISH religion? Is any religion beyond yours not HELLISH?