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To: cuban leaf; WXRGina

Here’s what’s indisputable:

It was not until the Synod of Rome (382) and the Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397) that we find a definitive list of canonical books being drawn up, and each of these Councils acknowledged the very same list of books. From this point on, there is in practice no dispute about the canon of the Bible, the only exception being the so-called Protestant Reformers, who entered upon the scene in 1517, an unbelievable 11 centuries later.

Once again, there are two fundamental questions for which one cannot provide answers that are consonant with Sola Scriptura: A) Who or what served as the final Christian authority up to the time that the New Testament’s canon was identified? B) And if there was a final authority that the Protestant recognizes before the establishment of the canon, on what basis did that authority cease being final once the Bible’s canon was established?

An “Extra-Biblical” Authority Identified the Canon of the Bible.

Since the Bible did not come with an inspired table of contents, the doctrine of Sola Scriptura creates yet another dilemma: How can one know with certainty which books belong in the Bible – specifically, in the New Testament? The unadulterated fact is that one cannot know unless there is an authority outside the Bible which can tell him.

Moreover, this authority must, by necessity, be infallible, since the possibility of error in identifying the canon of the Bible would mean that all believers run the risk of having the wrong books in their Bibles, a situation which would vitiate Sola Scriptura. But if there is such an infallible authority, then the doctrine of Sola Scriptura crumbles.

Another historical fact very difficult to reconcile with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is that it was none other than the Catholic Church which eventually identified and ratified the canon of the Bible. The three councils mentioned above were all councils of this Church. The Catholic Church gave its final, definitive, infallible definition of the Biblical canon a the Council of Trent in 1546 – naming the very same list of 73 books that had been included in the 4th century.

If the Catholic Church is able, then, to render an authoritative and infallible decision concerning such an important matter as which books belong in the Bible, then upon what basis would a person question its authority on other matters of faith and morals?

Protestants should at least concede a point which Martin Luther, their religion’s founder, also conceded, namely, that the Catholic Church safeguarded and identified the Bible: “We are obliged to yield many things to the Catholics – (for example), that they possess the Word of God, which we received from them; otherwise, we should have known nothing at all about it.”

The Catholic Church does not claim that by identifying the books of the Bible it rendered them canonical. God alone is the author of canonicity. The Catholic Church instead claims that it and it alone has the authority and responsibility of infallibly pointing out which books comprise the Biblical canon already authored by God.


15 posted on 02/13/2015 10:58:43 AM PST by Steelfish
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To: Steelfish

The bible is good for learning, reproof, etc.

My relationship with my Lord and savior is not because of the bible, but it enhanced by it.

That being said, some people’s incorrect interpretations of the bible have gotten into my Christian sensibilities, but one by one they are being rooted out through prayer and study.

The two most blatant:
1. I used to be a strong pre-tribulationist until I was presented with alternative viewpoints and then studied it myself, prayerfully analyzing the veracity of the arguments made by the various sides.
2. Via the same method and similar events, I went from believing everlasting conscious torment for the lost to simple annihilation.

I’m sure more will come with time, as my own knowledge of His word increases to to where it is close to or equal to those who originally taught me.


17 posted on 02/13/2015 11:08:07 AM PST by cuban leaf (The US will not survive the obama presidency. The world may not either.)
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To: Steelfish

“The Catholic Church instead claims that it and it alone has the authority and responsibility of infallibly pointing out which books comprise the Biblical canon already authored by God.”

The problem is that, if you read the books that they pointed out, some are not in accord with the totality of Scripture, so the idea of their infallibility on this issue is untenable.


28 posted on 02/13/2015 12:08:48 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Steelfish
It was not until the Synod of Rome (382) and the Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397) that we find a definitive list of canonical books being drawn up, and each of these Councils acknowledged the very same list of books. From this point on, there is in practice no dispute about the canon of the Bible, the only exception being the so-called Protestant Reformers, who entered upon the scene in 1517, an unbelievable 11 centuries later.

Nope.. there are no records from Hippo .. The NT books were considered scripture during the apostolic church ..different church fathers accepted different books.. each Bishoprick decided its own canon

The New Testament Canon

New Testament Books Treated as Traditional Scripture by Early Writers

Italic type indicates that the writer either does not mention the book or expressed some doubt about the status of the book.


Athanasius
(b. 296)

Origen
(b. 185)

Irenaeus
(b. 130)

Marcion*
(b. 85)

Matthew Matthew Matthew
Mark Mark Mark
Luke Luke Luke Luke
John John John
Acts Acts Acts
Romans Romans Romans Romans
1 Corinthians 1 Corinthians 1 Corinthians 1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians 2 Corinthians 2 Corinthians 2 Corinthians
Galatians Galatians Galatians Galatians
Ephesians Ephesians Ephesians Ephesians
Philippians Philippians Philippians Philippians
Colossians Colossians Colossians Colossians
1 Thessalonians 1 Thessalonians 1 Thessalonians 1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy 1 Timothy 1 Timothy
2 Timothy 2 Timothy 2 Timothy
Titus Titus Titus
Philemon Philemon Philemon Philemon
Hebrews Hebrews Hebrews
James James James
1 Peter 1 Peter 1 Peter
2 Peter 2 Peter 2 Peter
1 John 1 John 1 John
2 John 2 John 2 John
3 John 3 John 3 John
Jude Jude Jude
Revelation** Revelation Revelation


* Marcion's views were peculiar to his sect. He was aware of the fact that many of the other books were read as scripture in most churches.

** The Revelation of John was first received and then rejected by many churches in Asia Minor.


Rome had no canon until the Council ot Trent

82 posted on 02/13/2015 3:53:56 PM PST by RnMomof7
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