Newfound "Gospel of the Lots of Mary" discovered in ancient text

Live Science ^ | 02-05-2015 | Jaus Owen

[LearsFool]

Nicely put, anyway! :-)

But what about Bartholomew? Didn’t he “fall off the map in Scripture”? Thaddeus? Andrew?

[RnMomof7]

Yep...no question

[rusty schucklefurd]

Re: “But what of the questions I raised in #52 regarding the prophecy of David? “

Peter obviously believed that there should be a replacement for Judas and believed he had Scriptural support for such a belief. That doesn’t mean that Jesus gave him any instructions regarding this matter. The only recorded instructions from Jesus was for them to remain in Jerusalem and wait for the promised Holy Spirit, and to make disciples in all nations.

The qualifications Peter gave for the replacement make total sense because an Apostle was to have been a literal eye witness of Jesus from His baptism, His crucifixion, and His resurrection.

I also don’t have a problem that the Apostles made a decision without direct revelation from God. God has given us minds to think and reason - all within the context of Scriptural teaching. He has given us His Word to learn His moral teachings that help guide us in everyday living.

They had a decision to make. They came up with sound qualifications, they asked for God’s direction. They had two Godly men to choose from. If Jesus hadn’t wanted them to make a decision, He would have told them who to replace Judas with before He ascended.

They made the best decision they could - I just don’t get the reason for the casting of lots - that seems to be leaving it uo to chance. I guess we can’t just put God and the early church in a box and get nice, neat answers for everything.

By the way, I am really enjoying our conversation and little study on this matter. It has been very interesting.

[LearsFool]

I enjoyed the discussion very much as well. I don't know what else to say on the subject, so here are a couple of interesting proverbs regarding the casting of lots:

"The lot is cast into the lap; But the whole disposing thereof is of Jehovah." - Prov. 16:33

"The lot causeth contentions to cease, And parteth between the mighty." - Prov. 18:18

[ExGeeEye]

It ain't in that verse. However, please note the following:

1. In "The Acts of the Apostles", Matthias is mentioned only three times, all within a span of 13 verses, all having to do with this one incident.

2. These are the only mentions of the name "Matthias" in the entire Bible.

3. The calling by God of, and acceptance by the other Apostles of, God's chosen Apostle is recorded in "The Acts of the Apostles". The Acts of that particular Apostle-- Paul, by the way-- are described in some detail throughout "The Acts of the Apostles".

4. One may safely infer from the above, the following:

.....a. God chose Paul for His chosen Apostle back when he was still known as Saul, the Pharisee persecutor.

.....b. The choosing of Matthias was, therefore, in error.

.....c. The method of choosing Matthias was, therefore, at least questionable.

.....d. The other Apostles and leaders in the Church eventually recognized Paul, rather than Matthias, as the replacement Apostle.

[vladimir998]

Matthias became the 12th Apostle. Paul only became an Apostle YEARS later. Your theory simply makes no sense.

[Elsie]

Written in Coptic, an Egyptian language, the opening reads (in translation):

Did the thing have THESE caractors on it???

[Elsie]

Sounds like an ancient version of the Magic 8 Ball.

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THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 16

The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.

2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ^ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the ^bguilty taketh the ^ctruth to be hard, for it ^dcutteth them to the very center.

3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might ^awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.

5 And it came to pass that they did ^ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the ^avalley which he called Lemuel.

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the ^adaughters of Ishmael to ^bwife; and also, my brethren took of the ^cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also ^dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the ^acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.

9 And it came to passthat the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ^ajourney into the wilderness.

10 And it came to passthat as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ^aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one ^bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

11 And it came to passthat we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take ^aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.

12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.

13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place ^aShazer.

14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the ^aRed Sea.

15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, ^aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

16 And we did follow the ^adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.

17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine ^asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.

20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did ^amurmur against the Lord.

21 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their ^asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.

22 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto ^acomplaining against the Lord their God.

23 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did ^amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my ^bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?

24 And it came to pass that he did ^ainquire of the Lord, for they had ^bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.

25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly ^achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.

26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.

27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were ^awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the ^afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.

29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us ^aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by ^bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.

30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the ^adirections which were given upon the ball.

31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild ^abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.

32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained ^afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.

33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

34 And it came to pass that ^aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called ^bNahom.

35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did ^amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their ^bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did ^cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.

36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to ^areturn again to Jerusalem.

37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us ^aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ^bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.

38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that ^aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman ^bstir up their hearts to ^canger.

39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did ^achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

 

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[Elsie]

Divination is a sin (Deut 18:10). The bible would not encourage this evil practice. This find is a demonic work.

Why do you hate M-ry so?

Her Son will NOT look lightly upon your SIN!

In before the amateur apologists...

[Elsie]

Ca ya run a graph of LaFonda?

[Elsie]

The Demons have deflected my request!

[Elsie]

I’m not the one in the thread who needs to be told that.

That?

It's my experience you can be told nothing.

[21twelve]

Back in Biblical times it was considered an act of God on casting lots - I think they picked the new apostle/desciple or whatever that way that replaced Judas. (Not having anything to do with the non-Biblical books of Mary or Nephi, just a comment.)

Another thing I have learned is that back in those times, healings and other miracles were much more common than today. It was not only Jesus that could heal people. (Of course he DID one-up the others with many of His miracles, like the casting out of demons and that Lazarus thing!)

[Elsie]

The Demons have been overcome, y’all!

[Elsie]

(I won;t insult your intelligence by filling in the blank.)

I...
Must...
Resist...

[Elsie]

Instead of flipping open some pagan text at random, a nominal Christian in 6th century Alexandria flipped open this book.

In the year 2519, archeologists searching the seabed a few miles off shore of Old Cinncinnati, discovered THIS ancient, soggy text...

Some scholars are suggesting it was a religious book of some type; for weak folks.

[Elsie]

ever hear of adamantly agreeing?

If it's found in the CCC, then he'd agree.

No! Wait....

[Elsie]

Just another gnostic text penned hundreds of years after after the events.

[Elsie]

But what about Bartholomew? Didn’t he “fall off the map in Scripture”? Thaddeus? Andrew?

Mary!!!

[Elsie]

The choosing of Matthias was, therefore, in error.

Therefore?

By what STANDARD?