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To: CA Conservative

The consecrated wine is often referred to as “wine” even in the Catholic Mass. The consecrated Host is referred to as “bread.” This usage is similar to that employed by Jesus at the Last Supper. He wasn’t giving a technical, philosophical, metaphysical discourse on the Eucharistic Presence.

There are two reasons that the use of the terms “bread” and “wine” are legitimate:

One: they still look like bread and wine. They WERE bread and wine.

Two: Even after the consecration, at which they BECOME Christ’s body and blood, they still FUNCTION AS SYMBOLS of flesh and blood.

That’s why they are fitting matter for the sacrament: They CAN become Christ’s body and blood because they are fitting NATURAL symbols of flesh and blood. One could argue that because a block of wood cannot be eaten, and a lump of coal cannot be drunk, Jesus COULD NOT make those into the sacrament of his body and blood. The bread and wine CAN be changed into Christ’s body and blood because they NATURALLY symbolize flesh and blood.

You imply that those uses of the words “bread” and “wine” utterly vitiate any belief in the Real Presence. But those uses of the words are not categorical, technical, global, univocal statements of Catholic belief about the Eucharist. They are convenient and qualified terminology.

The Church has always been unequivocal that the Eucharistic Species are to be worshiped with exactly the same worship that is due to Jesus Christ. It is preposterous to say that the use of the words “bread” and “wine” in certain contexts signifies that the Church does not believe in the Real Presence, set beside the constant insistence of the Church that the Eucharistic Species are to be WORSHIPED.


281 posted on 01/30/2015 12:25:21 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
Boy you are twisting and turning the language into all kinds of knots to make it say something other than what it clearly says. And I am glad to see you do so, as anyone with the ability to follow a clear line of reasoning will be able to see through your efforts.

With regard to the "Real Presence", I am not well versed in Catholic terminology, so I assume you are referring to Christ being physically present in the bread and the wine. Seems like a strange theology, and one that doesn't make much sense. It also seems superfluous - since I have Jesus present in me at ALL times, why would He need to be in the bread and the wine? I don't take Jesus into my body through my mouth - He is in my heart through His Spirit at all times.

And the fact that you worship any man-made item, whether that be a statue, a piece of bread or a cup of wine, clearly puts you unto the category of idolatry. We are not to worship the creation, we are to Worship the Creator only.

288 posted on 01/30/2015 1:02:17 PM PST by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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