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To: jonno

“In my circle of “Calvisnists” (actually a Baptist church), we take seriously the warning of Matthew 7:21–23, (where Jesus says) “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven””

You are narrowing the scope, and thereby missing the issue of the question. The question does not apply to your personal, subjective experience. It applies to any and every Calvinist. So let me rephrase the question...

“Does a Calvinist believe that the elect were ever in any REAL danger of going to hell?”


59 posted on 01/28/2015 9:39:42 AM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus; jonno
You are narrowing the scope, and thereby missing the issue of the question. The question does not apply to your personal, subjective experience. It applies to any and every Calvinist. So let me rephrase the question...

“Does a Calvinist believe that the elect were ever in any REAL danger of going to hell?”

Narrowing the scope to the subjective domain is impossible to avoid in the question as you have posed it.  You have asked what an entire category of individuals actually believed about their state of spiritual danger.  That is not the same as asking what their confessional stance might be.  Individual beliefs are necessarily subjective, i.e., determined by the unique circumstances of each individual.  Your best bet would be to do something like a poll, if your objective was to correlate actual individual beliefs with formal systems of belief.

But there is nothing in Calvinism structurally that would prevent one from believing they personally might be in danger.  I can tell you this personally from my own experience.  God ordains the means as well as the ends.  No one but God knows who the elect actually are.  We believe that our belief in Jesus and transformed lives indicate God has indeed shown us his grace.  But in the before time, the time of dissolution and rebellion, some of us were quite sure we were on a path to certain destruction, though speaking for myself, I suppressed it.  There was a point where I was even trying to avoid Bibles in hotel rooms, because the conviction of my wrongdoing was becoming so intense.  I have no doubt God was at work through the Holy Spirit warning me to avoid the danger. Any elect person will be convicted of sin, and sincerely desire at some point to avoid that danger.  That does not mean the outcome was uncertain.  It only means that God used, among other things, a holy fear of justifiable punishment to bring about the repentance that is certain to happen if one is elect.  Hence the expression, God ordains the means as well as the ends.

Peace,

SR

79 posted on 01/28/2015 10:40:23 AM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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