To: DuncanWaring

If faith in Jesus alone is adequate for salvation, why does He command us to pray that God “forgive us our trespasses” and “lead us not into temptation”?

To humble us, and help us remember just who it is that forgives us.

21 posted on 01/08/2015 8:17:10 AM PST by colorcountry (The gospel will transform our politics, not vice versa (Romans 12:1,2))

“But ask a Mormon, “If you were to die right now, do you have the assurance that all of your sins are forgiven?” The typical response is, inevitably, “I hope so,” “I think so,” or just plain, “No.”

One could easily substitute “Mormon” with several labels and get the same responses. Unbelief in the finished work of Christ results in NO SECURITY, just where Satan and all his dead religions want us!

22 posted on 01/08/2015 8:19:08 AM PST by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)

But if one believes in “Once saved, always saved”, why would one need further forgiveness? Why not revel in temptation?

23 posted on 01/08/2015 8:24:33 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)

I consider all religion sinful and agents of discord.

I agree with that, I have been to several churches in which they will say that grace through faith alone is what saves, but then come up with more things which can send you to hell than carter has liver pills.

Smoking is the ultimate sin in most churches regardless of what they teach and it is also what the world teaches but is not taught in the Bible.

24 posted on 01/08/2015 8:36:27 AM PST by ravenwolf

You’re obviously not frequenting the proper establishments for finding them.

25 posted on 01/08/2015 8:45:20 AM PST by norwaypinesavage (The Stone Age did not end because we ran out of stones)

To: DuncanWaring

Faith in Jesus saves.

All else flows from that.

Justification, them comes sanctification.

26 posted on 01/08/2015 8:47:11 AM PST by Gamecock (Joel Osteen is a preacher of the Gospel like Colonel Sanders is an Army officer.)

If faith in Jesus is all that is necessary for salvation, then why would one with faith in Jesus need to pray for forgiveness from sin?

27 posted on 01/08/2015 8:53:21 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)

To: DuncanWaring; teppe; Normandy

What’s your point in posting this?

To show the deception.

28 posted on 01/08/2015 9:29:50 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: RoosterRedux

How to be saved: Mormon Style...

In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University) http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng

29 posted on 01/08/2015 9:33:52 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: DuncanWaring; metmom; Gamecock

If faith in Jesus is all that is necessary for salvation, then why would one with faith in Jesus need to pray for forgiveness from sin?

Earlier in post #3 you wrote:

I spent eight+ years as a non-Mormon in Salt Lake City when I was much younger. I have no affection whatsoever for the Mormon church.

You may not be a Mormon, but your challenges certainly parallel Mormon thinking on the subject. What are you positing as being "necessary for salvation"?

30 posted on 01/08/2015 9:34:24 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")

To: elcid1970; teppe; Normandy

Read their Doctrine & Covenants, Word Of Wisdom, Pearl of Great Price, and Rules for Missionaries.

, teppe,normandy...

Were you guys ever missionaries??

The Rules

Learn and obey all missionary rules.
Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
Don't debate or argue.
Center your mind on your mission.
Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
Cut your hair regularly.
Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
Be neat and clean.
Bathe frequently.
Use deodorant.
Polish your shoes.
Iron your shirt and business suit.
Arise at 6:30 A.M.
Study for 2 hours every morning.
Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
Exercise regularly.
Write in your journal regularly.
Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
Stay with your companion during all activities.
Do not go on road trips.
Do not leave your assigned area without permission
Do not watch television.
Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
Do not listen to the radio.
Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
Do not participate in musical groups.
Do not participate in athletic teams.
Do not sponsor athletic teams.
Do not engage in contact sports.
Do not engage in water sports.
Do not engage in winter sports.
Do not engage in motorcycling.
Do not engage in horseback riding.
Do not engage in mountain climbing.
Do not embark on a private boat.
Do not embark in a private airplane.
Do not handle firearms.
Do not handle explosives.
Do not swim.
Do not play full court basketball.
Do not play basketball in leagues.
Do not play basketball in tournaments.
You may play half-court basketball.
Never be alone.
Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
Be loyal to your companion.
Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
Pray with your companion every day.
Study with your companion every day.
Plan your work with your companion every day.
Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
Do not arise before your companion.
Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
Do not flirt.
Do not date.
Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
Do not telephone parents
Do not telephone relatives.
Do not telephone friends.
Do not telephone girlfriends.
Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
Take problems and questions to your mission president.
Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
Obey all mission rules.
Obey the laws of the land.
Do not get involved in politics.
Do not get involved in commercial activities.
Do not give any information about the area.
Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
Be courteous.
Provide community service.
Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
Your mission president must approve your housing.
Keep your housing unit clean.
Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
Maintain your health.
Eat a healthy diet.
Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
Follow the approved exercise program.
Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
Be immunized.
Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
Budget your money carefully.
Keep a record of what you spend.
Do not spend more than your companion.
Do not loan money.
Do not borrow money.
Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
Pay your bills before leaving an area.
Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
Do not waste money on souvenirs.
Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
Be a frugal photographer.
Do not accumulate excess baggage.
Obey custom laws and regulations.
Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
Do not drive without a license.
Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
Do not drive members’ cars.
Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
Use cars only on approved mission business.
Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
Be conscious of safety at all times.
Drive defensively.
Wear your seat belt.
Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
Know bicycle safety rules.
Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
Go directly to your new area when transferred.
Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

31 posted on 01/08/2015 9:36:20 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

I consider all religion sinful and agents of discord.

Even YOURS???

32 posted on 01/08/2015 9:36:48 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

(Where in the the hell has my country gone?)

A question we ALL want answered!!!

Mayflower Compact

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.

Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France, and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth, 1620.

33 posted on 01/08/2015 9:38:01 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

I mongered one once.

34 posted on 01/08/2015 9:40:27 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: DuncanWaring

Will reveling in temptation bring you happiness?

Honest question.

35 posted on 01/08/2015 9:42:44 AM PST by freedomlover

“The fallacy that Jesus has done all for us, and live as we may, if on our deathbed, we only believe, we shall be saved in his glorious presence, is most pernicious.

Matthew 20:1-16 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

1 The kingdom of heaven is like to an householder, who went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

²And having agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

³And going out about the third hour, he saw others standing in the market place idle.

⁴And he said to them: Go you also into my vineyard, and I will give you what shall be just.

⁵And they went their way. And again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did in like manner.

⁶But about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing, and he saith to them: Why stand you here all the day idle?

⁷They say to him: Because no man hath hired us. He saith to them: Go you also into my vineyard.

⁸And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first.

⁹When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

¹⁰But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny.

¹¹And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house,

¹²Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats.

¹³But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny?

¹⁴Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee.

¹⁵Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? is thy eye evil, because I am good?

¹⁶So shall the last be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.

36 posted on 01/08/2015 9:42:51 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

“Those Saints who neglect [temple work] in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation.”

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

37 posted on 01/08/2015 9:44:02 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

"I Don't Know..."

In case you don't recognize the title of this post, it is part of President Hinckley's answer to a reporter's question that appeared in the August 4 1997 issue of Time magazine. The reporter referenced the King Follett discourse. The answer supplied and the manner in which it was delivered caused the reporter to draw some false conclusions about a very important doctrine.

In that discourse, the prophet Joseph Smith said, "If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man." (See also D&C 130:22)

The article referred to Lorenzo Snow's couplet, "As man is now, God once was; as God now is, man may become." The reporter said, "God the Father was once a man as we are. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing." President Hinckley was then asked, "Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?"

The bothersome reply

"I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."

The reporter wrote, "On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain." That's an unfortunate conclusion. Of course I wasn't at the interview and neither were you but I'll bet the reporter mistook careful thoughtfulness for uncertainty. This doctrine is indeed deep territory and not something that is taught outside the LDS Church.

An earlier and similar interview

The San Francisco Chronicle, published an interview with President Hinckley in April of 1997. The reporter asked, "There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormon's believe that God was once a man?" President Hinckley responded, "I wouldn't say that. There is a little couplet coined, 'As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.'"

He then said, "Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about." The reporter pounced on this. "So you're saying that the church is still struggling to understand this? " President Hinckley responded, "Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly."

President Hinckley's response

President Hinckley said in October 1997 General Conference: "I personally have been much quoted, and in a few instances misquoted and misunderstood. I think that's to be expected. None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine.

"I think I understand them thoroughly, and it is unfortunate that the reporting may not make this clear. I hope you will never look to the public press as the authority on the doctrines of the Church." And there lies the whole point of my post today. Some members did indeed become a little concerned by the exchanges they read in the press reports of those interviews.

Does the Church still teach this?

I know this is old news but it still bothers some people when they discover the anti-Mormon attacks floating around on the Internet. President Hinckley was right. We really don't know much about how our Heavenly Father became a God. The idea that he passed through a mortal probationary state like you and me is certainly not documented in any scripture of which I know.

However, it is still taught. In the Gospel Principles manual in the chapter on exaltation we read, "Joseph Smith taught: "It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46)."

Summary and conclusion

I don't know why this should bother anyone. The doctrine is true. Joseph Smith knew a whole lot more about this than I do. President Hinckley also knew a whole lot more about this doctrine than he was willing to share with reporters who did not have the background to understand it. It must have been difficult for President Hinckley to hold back and not teach it in those interviews.

It didn't bother me when I read the interviews back in 1997 and it doesn't bother me today. However, I know it does bother some people. We each have trials of our faith. I have never depended on an intellectual understanding of the gospel in order to accept it and live it. There are some things that just can't be fully comprehended without the temple, prayer and faith.

There are some things that just can't be fully comprehended without the temple, prayer and faith.

38 posted on 01/08/2015 9:44:58 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: SoConPubbie; teppe; Normandy

And what are the proper fruits, according to the Bible, of that faith that brings Eternal Life?

Good Question!!

Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

39 posted on 01/08/2015 9:46:51 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: DuncanWaring

40 posted on 01/08/2015 9:47:33 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

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