Posted on 12/19/2014 5:48:05 AM PST by Gamecock
I found this little ditty in the comments section of a theological liberal:
Old Epicurean trilemma (although also attributed to Carneades the Skeptic):
If God is unable to prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful.
If God is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not all-good.
If God is both willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?
It sounds profound and deep, but the Bible has answered this question over and over again in its denunciation of our own goodness. When the man said to Jesus, “good teacher…” Jesus replied that only God was good. He was not speaking in hyperbole. He was making a statement about the goodness of man. We don’t have any inherent goodness in us. We are conceived in iniquity and without God’s grace in our lives, we continue on in iniquity until we receive our just rewards in the after life, a punishment that no man wants, but fully deserves.
The problem with the above statement is that those who make it assume the lie that we are born innocent and therefore, with the right education and upbringing, we can be good people. This is just not the case. As Paul wrote Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned… (Romans 5:12). If there are those born innocent and never sin, then they would never die because death is the result of sin. Yet, all sin and all die because of our inherited sinfulness.
So is God being unjust by not preventing evil? Not at all. But we must understand that if He is to wipe out all that which is evil, that means He would have to wipe out all of humanity. It is in His grace towards some that He doesn’t deal immediately with the evil that does exists. Remember that He is not slow in His coming because He still has many to save before that day, since He is not willing that any of His elect would perish.
Yes, He could stop all that is evil, but does not do so for His own glory. He will be glorified both in His dealings with the just and the unjust at the end of time
I don’t suspect that those who hold to the above position to accept my answers here. But for those of us who have tasted His grace unto salvation, we can rest assured that the truths of the Bible about God are trustworthy. Only God is good. Only God is just. And thankfully, only God is truly merciful.
Just one more thought on the above statement: it really does show the arrogance of man. Who are we to question God’s motives, intentions and plans? He is not looking to us for instruction or wisdom. The people who make such statements are foolishly arrogant, and will have to answer to God some day for their stupidity. God will not be mocked, even if their statements seem profound. But that is the foolishness of the non-believer.
***we are faced with that choice daily.***
So do you ever make it through the day without sinning?
Do you always love your neighbor as yourself? The guy down the street with HIV? The crabby lady next door? Ever blow the horn in anger?
What the so called theological know it all experts fail to realize is ? That much of the bible , or rather most of Paul’s and others writings were written down on parchment, scrolls that didn’t have separations of chapters and verse.
Most of the book of Romans into the 6th chapter is one train of continuous thought.
Notice ? The therefores, and the wherefores ?
In chapter 8 in Romans, it can be proven that what Paul is writing in chapter 8 is a continuation of what he was writing in chapter 7.
Paul writes about the struggle about the new man in the rebirth in the spirit of Christ waring against the flesh, the law of the spirit vs the law of the flesh.
Paul writes in the end of chapter 7 exasperated, “ oh wretched man that I am, who can deliver me from this “ then he goes on to proclaim that is it Jesus Christ who can reliever him......... But ? The train of thought does not end there at the end of chapter 7.
It continues on and he says “ therefore ( for this reason ) There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Walking after the flesh here means, walking in self efforts, walking according at trying to keep the law.
Even Paul explain it there in those very verse that the law was weak IN THE FLESH.
Walking in the spirit is walking in God’s grace , leaning on, depending on Christ’s finished work on the cross.
It’s totally rediculious to think that the latter part of chapter 7 is Paul’s pre - salvation state.
When Paul does write about his pre - salvation state or life he goes into great detail explaining how he was zealous for God, observed the law, that he was educated amoung the best with a top rate education amoung the Pharasies.
Paul after his conversion counted it all lose, as dung for the excellently of Christ.
So, it ludicrously to think that the latter part of chapter 7 of Romans was Paul’s pre - salvation state, for chapter 8 is a continuation of chapter 7 with Paul’s, therefore.
If ? They are so perfect and have free will, how do they explain 1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that God loved us and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins.
The unregenerate man is not “predisposition to sin”, he is “dead in [his] trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1, and the idea is also shown in Colossians 2:13).
The unregenerate does have have the ability to choose what his will desires, but his desires will never turn him to God unless his nature is changed.
This change in nature, as shown in Romans 8 and 9, and Ephesians 2, is enacted by God, not man. It is God’s sovereign choice, and not man’s will, that saves him.
However, in man’s present state in his fallen nature he is completely incapable of keeping God’s commandments.
The only perfect ONE who kept and fullfilled the law for us was Jesus Christ and his very own righteousness was imputed to us at our new birth, God see’s us now as totally perfectly having kept his law and commandments IN Christ.
For we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
It’s called walking in the spirit and not in the flesh.
If we could have been able to keep even those 2 golden commandments, then ? Why did Saint John write this inspired by the holy spirit to write it ?
1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins.
However the commandment says to love your God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul.
It’s a paradox, a oxymoron.
In the flesh, man’s self efforts and his self righteousness ? It’s impossible to love God the way he intended us to love him , unless we have a helper, the holy spirit and the God’s grace, and walking in that grace and not in the flesh.
But is it fair, when the ‘free will’ of others and their choice of evil spills over into lives of others?
Life is many things, but fair it isn't.
Ok,”fair “ is probably a bad choice of words...So what is the justification of a persons free will and choice of evil having in adverse impact on the lives of others?
I agree. God could easily have made us automatons that worshipped Him incessantly, incapable of the choice to do otherwise. But I believe that God made us for His glory, that we would freely choose to love Him and worship Him. The free will to love God or not by its nature allows for evil to exist in the world. God wants us to overcome this evil, and He is willing to help us do so if we come to Him.
I see our relationship to God as not that different from a child’s relationship with a parent. A parent can demand that a child say that he loves the parent, but that is not true love. One of the best feelings there is is when a child comes to a parent and freely tells the parent that he loves him/her. The “art” that children make for their parents is of little intrinsic value, but we cherish it. We keep the dandelions our children bring to us as flowers because they are a sign of our children’s love for us.
Our so-called good deeds are, to God, not of any intrinsic value, but He values them when they done in His name.
At least that is my belief.
No justification. That's why evil is evil.;-)
A question for you to contemplate: If there is “free will” now, as you define it, will there be the same “free will” in Heaven?
Ok, thanks for the explanation...
Or rather, how can a living soul who was created in the image of God, and in the likeness and character of God, moreover, rebirth with the spirit of Christ and called the adopted sons of God could be called robots ?
That’s a insult to God’s elect and to God’s nature and character.
The only reason they use that word “ robots “ is they use it as a excuse for a arguement and to not come into the knowledge of the truth.
For them believing a lie, God will send them strong delusions since they obey not the truth.
My reply to evil existing in the world is, what kind of world would you like there to be? A utopia, where there is no pain, no labor, no poverty, no hills to climb, nothing to accomplish? No challenges?
All of the best qualities of humans require that evil or suffering or challenge exist. Name a quality that you admire in humans. Courage, for example. Courage only exists in the face of adversity, whether it be war, serious health issues or a threat to one’s self or another.
Compassion can only exist where another is in pain or need. Healing can only exist where there is sickness or injury. No good quality of man can exist without suffering in the world. God makes us capable of good, but doing good is of no value if it cannot be chosen from the possibility of doing wrong.
I can’t answer that authoritatively. I am not sure what heaven will be like, except that we will be in the presence of God. I think at that point free will is no longer an issue. For example, if God made His presence absolutely known to us today, where would faith go? Faith only exists when we cannot fully know. That’s what faith is. In heaven, faith will no longer be needed because we will be in the presence of God.
Even angels in Heaven have free will, otherwise some would not have fallen.
The adopted sons of God have free will...and express that free will in ways that serve God.
God gives us free will because He wants us to obey Him out of Love, not because He has demanded it. And He gives us creative minds because He wants to serve Him in ways that express our individuality.
That makes our gifts of Love all the more wonderful.
Of course there is free will in Heaven...just as there was in the Garden of Eden.
That's the way God works.
Thank you.
Not once He created Man.
In man’s unregenerate state, what some call it as “ free will “ is not free will after all because in the first place in the book of Ephesians, the bible tells us that we ran according to the course of this world, according to the power of the prince of the air ( the devil and his influences ) and the spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience.
Yeah, I say they have “ Free will “ sarcasm ,..........
Sound more like they were serving another master other than the God of Israel.
Influenced by the course of this world, by the power of the prince of the air, by the spirit that works in the hearts of the children of disobedience.
How can anyone see free will in that ?
But God ! Who is rich in mercy has quickened us, made us alive in Christ.
A dead man can not make himself alive by his own will or power.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.