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To: Petrosius; WVKayaker; aMorePerfectUnion; Elsie; metmom
You have a whole lot more faith in your fellow man than I do.

My faith is in Jesus Christ, that he will guide his church as he promised. I prefer this rather than trusting in a presumed infallibility of one's own interpretation. The divisions among Protestants shows that this is a failed model.

If your faith is in Jesus Christ, there is no need to have faith in a church. I was led to real faith in Jesus Christ by the Navigators, whose motto is "to know Christ and to make Him known."Of all the people I met, I only knew the denominational background of one person, because he was a Southern Baptist,US Army chaplain. They did, however, all have "faith" in Jesus Christ, and I have never met a more Godly group of people in my life. True 24/7 disciples of Jesus Christ. Did they have different opinions about various issues? Of course they did, but were UNITED in the only issue that matters: the plan of salvation. If one does not have the plan of salvation right, it doesn't matter what else they might have right. It is too important an issue, for me to trust someone else's opinion on it. If you trust others to interpret scripture for you, then you still have more faith in your fellow man than I do.

138 posted on 12/20/2014 2:32:55 PM PST by Mark17 (So gracious and tender was He. I claimed Him that day as my savior, this stranger of Galilee)
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To: Mark17
If your faith is in Jesus Christ, there is no need to have faith in a church.

No faith in the church Jesus Christ himself established? When a dispute arose in Antioch concerning the need for circumcision they did not leave it up to each one to decide for themselves, nor did the community at Antioch presume to decide the issue. Rather, they sent Paul, Barnabas and some others to go to Jerusalem to consult with the apostles and presbyters. The letter containing their decision reads:

The apostles and the presbyters, your brothers, to the brothers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia of Gentile origin: greetings. Since we have heard that some of our number [who went out] without any mandate from us have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind, we have with one accord decided to choose representatives and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. So we are sending Judas and Silas who will also convey this same message by word of mouth: "It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell." (Acts 15:23-29)
Notice the following:

1) The apostles were already joining the presbyters to themselves in the governance of the church;

2) they remonstrated those who were teaching without their mandate; and

3) they declared that their decision was not just that of men but of the Holy Spirit.

When did hierarchy mentioned in the NT lose the authority to govern the church?

Who today is upsetting the peace of the church by teaching without a mandate from the hierarchy? (Hint: it starts with ''P")

When did the Holy Spirit stop guiding the church?

No, not to have faith in the church is to ignore Scripture and not to have faith in the one who established it.

143 posted on 12/20/2014 7:28:51 PM PST by Petrosius
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