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To: spacejunkie2001

You are dishonoring the Blessed Mother who is without sin by your words and arrogant viewpoint of how Catholics honor our Blessed Mother. Blessed Virgin Mary is the Mother of our Church and our spirtutal mother.

Check out post 258 to see that mean attitude of some towards the Catholic Church’s veneration of the Mother of the Son of God.

May you be a servant of Christ and as obedient and sinless as His Mother.

How does our veneration of Mary and the saints relate to our worship of God?
The honor we give to God alone is properly called adoration, the highest honor we can give. The honor we give to Mary and the saints is called veneration. Proper veneration of the saints does not interfere with the worship due to God, but rather fosters it. “Our communion with those in heaven, provided that it is understood in the fuller light of faith according to its genuine nature, in no way weakens, but conversely, more thoroughly enriches the latreutic worship we give to God the Father, through Christ, in the Spirit.” With this understanding, we see that proper veneration of Mary does not detract from worship of God. Even as the Mother of the Savior, Mary has a place that is in every way subordinate to and dependent upon that of her Son, who is the one mediator between God and humanity. The maternal role that Mary fulfills toward us as Mother of the Church “in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power.”

What Mary does for the salvation of the human family does not come from her own power, but from a gift of divine grace that is bestowed on her through her Son. All the salvific influence that she bestows on us is produced “not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it.”38 Mary in no way replaces Christ. Rather, her role is to bring us to Christ, as is illustrated in Mary’s admonition at the wedding feast of Cana, “Do whatever he tells you” (Jn 2:5)
http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/prayers-and-devotions/mary-and-the-saints/frequently-asked-questions-about-blessed-virgin-mary.cfm

Please read Mark 7:
5 So the Pharisees and scribes questioned him, “Why do your disciples not follow the tradition of the elders* but instead eat a meal with unclean hands?”

6 He responded, “Well did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors me with their lips,

but their hearts are far from me;

7 In vain do they worship me,

teaching as doctrines human precepts.’

8 You disregard God’s commandment but cling to human tradition.” 9 He went on to say, “How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and ‘Whoever curses father or mother shall die.’ 11 Yet you say, ‘If a person says to father or mother, “Any support you might have had from me is qorban”’* (meaning, dedicated to God), 12 you allow him to do nothing more for his father or mother. 13 You nullify the word of God in favor of your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many such things.” 14 He summoned the crowd again and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand.

15Nothing that enters one from outside can defile that person; but the things that come out from within are what defile.” 16*

17* e When he got home away from the crowd his disciples questioned him about the parable. 18He said to them, “Are even you likewise without understanding? Do you not realize that everything that goes into a person from outside cannot defile, 19* f since it enters not the heart but the stomach and passes out into the latrine?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20“But what comes out of a person, that is what defiles. 21g From within people, from their hearts, come evil thoughts, unchastity, theft, murder, 22adultery, greed, malice, deceit, licentiousness, envy, blasphemy, arrogance, folly. 23All these evils come from within and they defile.”


401 posted on 12/15/2014 8:09:04 AM PST by ADSUM
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To: ADSUM

you really believe Mary was without sin? Would you be so kind as to post the scripture that references that?


422 posted on 12/15/2014 8:38:44 AM PST by spacejunkie2001
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To: ADSUM

“Our communion with those in heaven, provided that it is understood in the fuller light of faith according to its genuine nature, in no way weakens, but conversely, more thoroughly enriches the latreutic worship we give to God the Father, through Christ, in the Spirit.


I have not yet understood if the Catholic`s actually worship Mary or if they are just accused of it, some deny it, others admit it and still others say they deny it and then say they don`t deny it.

So I will stay away from that part.

My question is about Mary and other Christian saints being in heaven, the only resurrection we know of is when Jesus was resurrected, I personally believe 144000 went with Jesus, which was the first resurrection.

Romans 8
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Being glorified is what happened with Jesus at the resurrection so the people above would have to have been resurrected to be glorified.

I cor 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Rev 14
These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

I believe it is plainly telling us that 144000 of the old testament people were conformed to the image of Christ and went with Jesus.

If there has been any one resurrected since then it would have to be on the last day, so if the last day is a thousand year day as peter said in 2 peter 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Jesus said he would come for those who believed at the last day.

So if any of the Christian Saints are in heaven we must surely be living in that last day, and I believe we are.


427 posted on 12/15/2014 8:54:51 AM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: ADSUM
You are dishonoring the Blessed Mother who is without sin by your words and arrogant viewpoint of how Catholics honor our Blessed Mother. Blessed Virgin Mary is the Mother of our Church and our spirtutal mother.

She's dead. All these words won't hurt her.

She can no longer REFUSE Joseph her wifely obligations, since he's dead; too.

She can no longer IGNORE the GODLY command to "Go forth and MULTIPY".


So just keep on praying TO her; if it makes you feel any better.


Ecclesiastes 9:5
The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing.

496 posted on 12/15/2014 12:04:29 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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