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To: annalex

Hebrews 11:6

John 20:29 (NKJV)

Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” from the wider, entire chapter context here
.

Perhaps it would be helpful to remind yet again that concepts & principles expressed as the sola's of the reformation are none of them "solo", but are all of them interdependent & interlocking.

Neither did the expression of that summary distillation of principles, as it were, arise minus compelling reasons, or from a vacuum, but instead as Holcomb (who I found convenient to provide link to, though that man not known to me until moments ago, his presentation/discussion being near top of 'search' result) noted, was formulated by the Reformers who were;" Roused to action by the corruption and abuses they saw in the Roman Catholic church of the time,..."

So much for Sola Ecclesia, eh?

Either that --- or the real and true infallible leading of the Church, by the Spirit of the Lord --- obviously (even painfully so) is not entirely confined or restricted to that ecclesiastical community which falls under identification/heading of being Church of Rome, as if that one ekklesia out of all others is itself immune from need for correction (Hebrews 12, anyone? hey!) if we are to speaking here also as towards superstitious beliefs which may lead to confounding, confusing, and/or subverting the teachings and will of God, as that will, abundantly enough (to my own understanding) evidentially is towards those whom He call unto Himself...

Again, as for the rallying cry slogans of the Reformation, if split apart from one another, sola fide from sola gratia --- makes argument against them something of straw-man form, for having rather by default misrepresented them -- and in this instance, in regards to faith itself, you were in error when then continuing having said;

for within Scriptures the theme of faith (in God) runs throughout the texts --- and is the very underlying substance of all of the most primary traditions.

Hebrews 11:1-2

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
faith (ultimately --->in God, mind you) testified and taught by the Apostle Paul as foundational and living element...

Now for this additional tangled supposition which you also brought;

No, the Scriptures do not say "the Church" makes the rules, particularly chiefly or only one portion of the Church alone being able to supersede or be over and above the word-of-God as that can be "heard" (Romans 10:17), this principle exemplified (in two-fold fashion?) by Christ Himself who swore not upon His own authority alone, but again and again relied upon "as it is written" when He came to fulfill even that which had been written to the Jews.

As for the remainder of the tangled up (TUBAR -- tangled up beyond all repair/recognition) collection of assertion which you began in the above, italicised from there; continuing on towards your own manufactured conclusions;

the very same can be said for *most* all that which Romanists repeat again and again in assertions pertaining to their own concepts of SOLO Ecclesia --- with the accumulated efforts over the centuries of "terabytes of verbal fluff to create an appearance of legitimacy" indeed having created an intricate inter-locking set of superstitions laid over what elements of truth be in actuality there, which have grown eventually into becoming dogma which is part-true, but not entirely...to whit; not in it's exclusivity of application, the RCC being correct enough in many regards, erring chiefly when it speaks self-reverentially of itself.

See to it that the sword of truth be let fall upon your own suppositions, before attempting to swing that as if those suppositions were pure and eternal "blade" capable of being wielded in only one direction, for truth itself is a two-edged and mightily powerful sword, even His own...

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

2,336 posted on 12/20/2014 8:53:38 AM PST by BlueDragon (I could see sound,love,and the soundsetme Free,but youwerenot listening,so could not see)
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To: BlueDragon
Let us look at the scripture you posted that you think supports Sola Fide. Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

That is the Catholic teaching that faith is necessary for salvation. This does not teach that faith alone is sufficient for salvation.

John 20:29 (NKJV) Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

This teaches the Catholic teaching that faith comes not from observation of miracles but from the historical knowledge of Christ preserved in the Holy Church. It does nto teach that the faith alone is sufficient for salvation.

You then mention that the Holy Church is not herself free from abuse. That does not prove that salvation is by faith alone.

as for the rallying cry slogans of the Reformation, if split apart from one another, sola fide from sola gratia --- makes argument against them something of straw-man form

Sola Gratia is the teaching of the Catholic Church. Sola Fide is a heresy. Places in scripture where salvation by faith alone is taught are plentiful (Eph. 2:4-10, for example). Places where salvation by faith alone are none, and direct scripture in full context condemns the Protestant view (James 2:16-26). So yeah, separated they are.

Hebrews 11:1-2 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

Catholic teaching (yes, faith is necessary and very important for salvation, and comes to us from the testimony of the Church) not related to the heresy of salvation by faith alone that you are attempting to defend.

the Scriptures do not say "the Church" makes the rules, particularly chiefly or only one portion of the Church alone being able to supersede or be over and above the word-of-God as that can be "heard" (Romans 10:17)

The Scripture does not know several churches. It knows one Catholic Church, -- it attaches no qualifiers to the word "church" except geographical ones. It also teaches against having parts or "denominations" inside the Church (1 Cor. 1:10). And that One Church is the rule of faith as is clear from Matthew 16:19.

Romans 10:17

Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ. "Hearing" indicates a live person teaching, -- probably, a priest; other than that how does this quote support Protestant theories?

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Exactly. So Protestantism is condemned by the Word of God squarely.

2,781 posted on 12/22/2014 8:06:31 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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