Posted on 12/09/2014 2:09:19 PM PST by NYer
**Beautiful explanation of intercessory prayer!**
Thank you!
**No one prays to dead saints, because those in heaven are more alive than we are.**
Paul says they are asleep in Christ at the present.
Sure! I hope you’re not one of those thin-skinned Catholics.
Jesus was called:
a blasphemer, a deceiver, a perverter of the nation, a malfactor, etc.
So, you are free to call me whatever you want. I can take it.
Peace
I type quite slow, so I use abbreviations when they are handy. No disrespect is intended by using ‘RC’. I find ‘Prods’ a handy shortcut, too.
It’s not thin skin and it’s not the initials, it’s the tone. I don’t use abbreviations. But to each his own. That could be the start of a really bad poem. :) I need to go to sleep. I get up at 3AM. Good Night Everyone!
Next up, graphics. Same concept (substitute less than and great than for the braces). (center) (img src="jpg file") (/center). That will place the image in the center. Otherwiie, you can omit the center command and the image will post on the left side of the comment box.
**Only because of *what* Adonijah was asking for, not *how* he did the asking, or *who* he had doing the asking for him.**
Well, it was sneaky on Adonijah’s part, and Solomon saw right through it. The fact that Bathsheba didn’t, showed why a seat had to be brought in to sit at Solomon’s right hand. Solomon’s response surely showed her that, in such serious matters, she certainly shouldn’t be representing anyone that could make the same request themselves.
“Ask for him the kingdom also; for he is mine elder brother...”.
I’m sure Bathsheba was embarrassed, maybe even ashamed when she heard those words from Solomon.
As far as saints that are ‘asleep in Christ’; I know to not bother praying to them, thank God.
And, I think God answers some prayers not directed straight to him because he is so merciful and gracious. Just as when my baby sons would cry for ‘momma’, I would come to his aid, seeing his mother might not be home, or in the bath, etc.
Thank you! I’ll try it! :)
**I get up at 3AM.**
usually 4AM for me (truck driver), sometimes earlier. And good night to you!
It is rude for you to have now pinged me to this -- before responding to that which I just said to you, otherwise.
What is being engaged here in this is prime example of what in forum debate parlance is referred to as a moving of the goalposts, which all in all, is infuriating.
That said, these alleged, and/or alluded to instances to which you have now referred to, beyond having attributed the results to have come from God himself, suffer condition of being the logical fallacy of confusing correlation (if there truly is even, much of any of that) with causation as to process -- in this case the process under by which God Himself is seen to be responding in something of supernatural, miraculous way chiefly or mainly for reason of the process which is being assumed to have occurred.
Remember here also --- that in the previous discussion --- what or whom was being "prayed to" then?
It was not some passed on saint (an individual dear to the heart of God, perhaps even hidden in Christ, but rather was concerning praying to angels, instead. Remember?
Since that be deficient, theologically, biblically speaking --- before going any further here in this moving of the goalposts which you have indulged yourself in, I must remind you there is unattended business --- things left still undone.
Clean up, on aisle six. Not only are you the store-clerk, but you did cause the spill itself.
Please see to that rather than dashing about willy-nilly around within the store, offering further items to me, even forcing those upon myself as having been made by God's own hand directly, and that now equate that any should now put faith in this less-than-proven process, rather than more simply and more directly in God, Himself.
That was a-puttin' 'er in the ten-ring, in theological/logical way, and visual preventative form, both.
kerpow.
Or as one may hear on the gunrange --- bang-splat (the latter "splat" being the paper of the target being pierced).
It was an uncomplicated question. Where does the Holy Scripture instruct us that unless a prayer is not found in the Scripture it should into be prayed?
I don't think any obfuscation is needed here. A chapter and verse would suffice.
I hope you know that there is a vast difference between asking a living person you know to pray with you over a need and asking someone you know is already dead and may be in heaven or may not be. Those, for example, on these threads who have asked others here to pray with them has the effect of involving them in our lives and joining with each other in praise as we see how God works in our lives. Almost all the times I've read of supposed Saints working "miracles" - and it really isn't the saint DOING the miracle, you know that, right? - it is the saint that gets the glory and praise. You even talked about how your religion goes about verifying if someone is a saint in heaven based on if they have verified miracles to their credit or not. Can you not see how easy it would be for people to be deceived into believing whatever a so-called saint said was the truth? Things like visions, apparitions and other mystical things get passed off as genuine based on nothing more than a "Saint" declared it so and they MUST be speaking the truth because they are in heaven, right?
This thread was about praying to angels. You posted it in an OPEN Religion Forum thread so you must have wanted others to discuss the topic who may or may not be Catholic. I happen to believe that we aren't supposed to pray TO anyone BUT God. Y'all may justify this by saying it's no different than asking a friend to pray for you, but you have to know that it is a VASTLY different thing. Offering prayers to created beings, beings that do not have the Divine powers of God to be everywhere, hear everyone, all at the same time, especially those who have passed from this life and are no longer here, is presuming they have the same power as God. NOWHERE in Scripture are we ever told we can or should pray to departed people - in fact, we are commanded to NOT seek the dead on behalf of the living. Don't you think that if this were something that God desired we do for our benefit He would have said so?
We know that in all things all glory, honor and praise should go to Almighty God and that is not God being boastful or proud, it's Him just being honest. He alone deserves it because everything was created by Him and for Him and without Him NOTHING would exist that exists or existed. His glory He will not share with another because to do so would BE dishonest.
Obfuscation is what you're continuing to show. The question NEVER was about "prayers" being found in Scripture but to WHOM we should "pray". It's not at all a difficult question, but for some reason, you continue to dodge it.
I'll repeat my original question, where in Scripture are we told to pray to angels? Because everywhere Scripture talks about these spiritual and powerful beings, they are the ones who deliver messages FROM God TO people. They rejected worship whenever anyone tried to give it - the HOLY ones, that is. I'm sure Satan and his fallen buddies would gladly accept our worship, but that would be a sin.
So, what is a good reason for having composed prayers directed to angelic beings when we are taught in Scripture to pray TO God, alone? We don't have the go ahead from God to tell His angels to do anything for us - they do what HE tells them. If we have direct access to the throne of grace through Jesus Christ, what possible extra benefit is there from petitioning angels anyway? God hears our prayers and in His will He answers them - to HIS glory and praise no matter what His answer is.
Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. - Revelation 22:8-9
Amen. God bless you, dear sister in Christ.
The original question was uncomplicated, focusing there not on content of prayers, but to whom prayers unto God, according to Scripture -- are to be addressed or 'sent' as it were...
The next question, which you had crafted in response was more complex, having included a re-directing conflating & confusing change of identities & issue, rather than provide answer to the lady's own initial and uncomplicated question.
Then why did you bring any?
Go back and provide chapter and verse for the question which you had initially responded to with your own question -- before demanding of others that they do the same.
Carry the burdens which you would have others carry, perhaps?
Thank you, both of you dear persons.
Well we both should be up again! :)
Your original question is:
Can you demonstrate anywhere in Scripture that we are to pray to angels?
Granted that the scripture does not say "pray to angels!" anywhere, it is logical for me to ask:
Can you demonstrate anywhere in Scripture that prayers must be mentioned in the Holy Scripture in order for us to pray them?
Yet to this simple question neither of you has an answer.
Correct, as the Catholic church teaches both in Revelation and today, we should worship God alone. The question was whether we should pray to angels, not worship angels.
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