Posted on 11/24/2014 7:50:29 AM PST by Salvation
I would agree.
If we truly hated you we would simply allow you to die in heresy. But that kind of hatred is as worthy of damnation as the sin we are trying to correct.
And every Catholic who exacts unwarranted violence on a Protestant—on that day or any since—and does not confess it in tears and sackcloth before the throne of Almighty God will most assuredly be damned.
Read how St. Francis de Sales restored Catholicity to Calvin’s Geneva. I don’t think you’ll find hatred there.
Riiiigggghhhhtttt. Sure you are. Let's look at some of those prayers "asking for approach on your behalf".
I venerate thee with all my heart,
O Virgin most holy,
above all Angels and Saints in paradise,
as the daughter of the Eternal Father,
and to thee I consecrate my soul with all its powers.
"Virgin most holy" ey? "To thee I consecrate my soul"??? To Mary??? Really? And you claim that's asking for prayers on you behalf? Give me a break.
Another one.
O Mary, Virgin most powerful and Mother of Mercy, Queen of Heaven and Refuge of Sinners, we consecrate ourselves to thy Immaculate Heart. We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life: all that we have, all that we love, all that we are. To thee we give our bodies, our hearts, and our souls; to thee we give our homes, our families and our country. We desire that all that is in us and around us may belong to thee and may share in the benefits of thy motherly blessing. [http://www.catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=438]
Asking them to pray for you indeed.
Please don't insult the readers with those claims of "we don't pray to Mary" or "we only ask them to pray for us". Those prayers are all listed online for anyone to see.
>>I know a lot about good, sound biblical theology and I know that the RCC does not comport with such. If you would like to let us know where in Scripture any of the errant doctrines I mentioned are actually taught, I am interested.<<<
Why should I bother? Your list was incoherent, and was just bating for responses. I don’t have to sit back here and figure out some new interpretation of scripture to defend Catholic doctrine.
There are plenty of publications by the Church you yourselves can look up with scriptural doctrine. Its already out there. I don’t have to cite it.
I certainly do not believe that Rome had anything to do with establishing the collection of books we call the Bible. That is a fabrication of your cult-like organization. If you were unafraid of what you might find, you should read a real history of Rome...you would swim the Tiber the other direction.
My list was incoherent? Let me try again and see if this is more coherent...no such thing as absolution of sin, no such thing as indulgences, no such thing as purgatory, no such thing as sacerdotalism, no such thing as popery, no such thing as the seven sacraments, no such thing as Mariolatry, no such thing as gold-covered cathedrals, no such thing as transubstantiation...whew. If that is incoherent, then we are going to get you some reading lessons for Christmas. Just find any of this in the Bible and we are listening.
I know that Catholics desperately need that to be so but alas it is false. For many reasons it CAN NOT be Mary but Catholics may want to consider this.
Jeremiah 3:16 And it hath come to pass, when ye are multiplied, And have been fruitful in the land, In those days -- an affirmation of Jehovah, They say not any more, 'The ark of the covenant of Jehovah,' Nor doth it go up on the heart, Nor do they remember concerning it, Nor do they inspect, nor is it made again.
>>Rev. 12:1<<
The woman in Revelation 12 can in no way be Mary. It's the nation of Israel. The twisting of scripture by Catholics in an attempt to make that woman Mary is comical and total corruption of scripture.
>>Apparently because there were no bones to claim<<
"Apparently"? You base your eternal destiny on conjecture or lack of evidence?
Once again we see Catholics holding a belief that is not based on solid teaching in scripture and is not taught by the apostles.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
The prominence that the belief in the assumption of Mary holds in the Catholic belief system contradicts the teaching of the apostles rather than holds to their teaching. Paul said that if someone teaches something they didn't that teacher was to be considered accursed.
Maybe Jesus is the counterfeit.. the greco roman latin version.with all the roman holy days to boot..
That would rock Christianity- mother and daughters alike..
It would also explain the 1000$ of versions of truth... all starting from Rome..
Satan couldn’t be that evil and deceitful could he?
Quote-Rev. 12:1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child. ... [S]he brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.
That vision is a rather interesting astronomical event if one studies His sky and His calendar.
It is a particular day on our Heavenly Father’s calendar- when the sun clothes the woman constellation,and the moon appears under her feet..
It is the Birth day for the Messiah of Israel, an appointed time.. a new moon day.
Nowhere near December 25.
But Rome calls the shots on christian worship and the world’s calendar so His appointed times are being substituted for Roman days..
Prophetic given times and laws were going to be changed in Daniel 7..
Maybe Christianity is all counterfeit..
>>>no such thing as absolution of sin<<<
Take this for example. You’ve not bothered to represent what Catholic teaching is. You’ve placed a term out into space which can easily be interpreted into ANYTHING.
It is therefore just a soundbite to bait someone with an axe to grind. A Catholic might as well just call you Nestorians and or Gnostics and possibly not even Christian (If you don’t practice the sacrament of baptism). None of those before mentioned words, without a context, have the power to convince. Given the likelihood of convincing anyone on the internet, that’s going to be rare.
But you’re just troll baiting anyway. Your words are just those of a scoffer, which scripture tells people not to pay attention to anyway.
The dogma is the infallible teaching of Holy Mother Church, guided by the Holy Ghost and was universally accepted by all of Christendom for 1400 years.
Where in the bible does it state it to be the sole source of holiness and salvation? Where does the bible address the end of apostolic succession? Where in the bible does it state what color your Church should be or of what materials it be constructed?
I have spent a significant amount of time studying not just ancient Rome, but the entire ancient world. It has been a life-long pursuit.
Whether you can accept the historical facts of the creation of the Bible is your problem, not mine.
All the best and have a happy Thanksgiving.
Veneration is different than worship. Latria, is due to God alone, while Mary is due hyperdulia. When you study those two words, my post will make sense.
Additionally, your response implies she is given equal status with God. That is incorrect, for to do so would be a violation of the first commandment. To assume the Roman Catholic Church would promote the violation of the first commandment is both illogical an uncharitable.
Mary is to be reverenced above all CREATED beings (angels, people), for she was the Mother of Jesus. She provided of her own free will, the human womb, sustenance, rearing and protection for God made man. Hers is a role known by no other in the history of the universe.
Please also re-read John 2. People at the feast knew Jesus was different, special, and capable of miracles. However, they approached Mary, asking her for the help of her son. Does this diminish the majesty of Jesus? No. Rather, it demonstrates the people’s knowledge of the 4th commandment, and trust that Jesus will honor the request of His mother.
As Americans, we don’t have the concept of Queen Mother. In the ancient world, people would often petition the Queen mother, knowing her sovereign son would listen to his mother. As Jesus is perfect, and lived a perfect life on earth, he too did and does honor His mother. Should we do anything less than imitate the example of Jesus?
May you have a safe and pleasant Thanksgiving.
1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Right There...
Joh_20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
And Right There...How many times do you people have to be led to the scriptures that tell you that...What? You guys can not understand plain, simple words??? You should never have to ask that question again, but I'm sure you will...
Your religion clearly doesn't take ANY of the scriptures as authoritative...It is just a book to you guys...
Where does the bible address the end of apostolic succession?
2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Right There...There is no one in your religion who ever performed signs and wonders and mighty deeds...Paul's successors never performed miracles...Peter's successors never performed miracles... There is no apostolic succession...
What there is, is churches...With bishops/elders...
The dogma is the infallible teaching of Holy Mother Church, guided by the Holy Ghost and was universally accepted by all of Christendom for 1400 years.
In a word: NUTS...Your mother church doesn't have a lick of biblical support...It didn't come out of the scriptures...
Mary first appears in Genesis, what we call the Proto Evangelium - the First Gospel - where God lays out His salvific mission for man. Pretty sure God had something special in mind for the New Eve, the Mediatrix of all graces and New Ark of the Covenant. And there are precedents with Enoch and Elijah.
That is pure pagan religion...Joe Smith, Mohammed, Catholicism, all the same bunch with a different twist...That's the religion of the Devil right there...
It needn't be in the bible for it to be true as Sola Scriptura is a profoundly false doctrine. Laughably so.
If you can't get it in the scriptures, it's not of the God of Creation...Oh ya, you have a religion all right...
And Jesus had a grandmother...More NUTS...
That's not in the Christian Bible...How do you expect people to take you seriously when you make up stuff and claim it is biblical??? I certainly don't...
Perhaps gullible Catholics believe this lunacy instead of checking you out to see if you are telling the truth...
Mary is to be reverenced above all CREATED beings (angels, people), for she was the Mother of Jesus.
More unBiblical, unGodly nonsense...
Tragically, that did not include a life-long study of the Bible. In it you would have found doctrines quite different from those your organization promulgates. And, yes, I will be very thankful this Thanksgiving day. The same to you.
For your reading pleasure, from the KJV:
John 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
So, it is in the Bible, the KJV Bible, and I didn’t make it up. Do you deny it now? Mary interceded for the host, to Jesus. Jesus did as His mother asked.
Thank you for your kind wishes for Thanksgiving.
Studying ancient history doesn’t presume not studying Sacred Scripture. On the contrary, they enhance each other.
We will have to agree to disagree as to doctrines we believe.
Well, I certainly do not mean to "scoff" (whatever you mean by that odd term). I certainly do mean to expose the errant teaching of the cult-like organization call the "RCC". So much error exists in it that if there are elect among that body, it is in spite of the teaching, not because of it.
Someday you may wish to read the entire epistle to the Romans and notice how Paul decodes the Scriptural story line into a unified message of grace. Your "works" oriented organization (utilizing absolution of sin, sacerdotalism, purgatory, indulgences, paternosters, genuflecting, crossing oneself, candles, icons, etc.) simply does not understand what he is getting at.
Ask metmom (who escaped the clutches of Rome) to describe the wonder and joy of experiencing the grace of Jesus, alone. It is possible to be found in Him, not having a righteousness of your own, but of His.
This is, again, not scoffing but offering you a correction of the misunderstanding your organization has been delivering for many years. My job is to gently offer this and wait to see if God grants you a change of mind. II Tim. 2:24ff.
If it's not Catholics have some serious proving to do.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Now prove from an infallible source that the apostles taught the assumption of Mary.
The Catholic Church has made up many beliefs that the apostles didn't teach. They have incorporated Babylonian pagan beliefs and practices that were specifically condemned by God. Paul said if they didn't teach it the teachers was to be considered accursed.
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