Posted on 11/20/2014 6:27:11 AM PST by Gamecock
The mentality that thinks in terms of marketing Jesus inevitably moves toward progressive distortion of him; the pursuit of the next emotional round of experience easily degenerates into an intoxicating substitute for the spirituality of the Word. There is non-negotiable, biblical, intellectual content to be proclaimed. By all means insist that this content be heralded with conviction and compassion; by all means seek the unction of the Spirit; by all means try to think through how to cast this content in ways that engage the modern secularist. But when all the footnotes are in place, my point remains the same: the historic gospel is unavoidably cast as intellectual content that must be taught and proclaimed. -D.A. Carson, The Gagging of God
A few thoughts on tonight’s 60 Minutes’ piece on Joel Osteen.
1. Byron Pitts, the reporter doing the piece, was simply superb. To the point. Unmoved by show. Understood the problem. In fact, probably understood far more than Osteen himself does about Christianity.
2. As much as I would like to join those who say that Osteen is a simpleton who doesn’t know what he’s doing, a close examination will show that at every point where there is a choice between being part of the church or departing into heresy, Osteen sticks with the church where there is money to be had and departs from the church where there is a faith to be confessed. He’s could be called a heretic by some, even if he is a believer, and he communicates a purposefully false trivialization of the person and work of Jesus Christ in favor of a man-centered motivational message of self-improvement.
Again, as I’ve said before, every evangelical leader needs to personally and by name repudiate and separate from Osteen, and call upon him and his followers to come back into the faith that is articulated in the Apostle’s Creed.
3. Osteen’s 73 million dollar cash cow is making a lot of people wealthy. This is about money, and Osteen is smart enough to know there is more money to be had by avoiding begging on TV. This doesn’t change a thing, however. He’s taking enough money to fund a huge part of the modern missions movement and using it to put on a show and promote materialism.
4. The line about getting people into “church” who have been out of “church” is simply c*#p, to be polite. No one in this movement is in church. They’re in the worst form of the prosperity Gospel, they are abandoning the God of the Bible, and they are glorifying a man who is assisting in the humiliation of the Gospel of Jesus. Osteen is a motivational speaker, and he uses only enough Christianity as necessary to get in the pockets of the gullible. Osteen is a Gospel preacher like Col. Sanders is an army officer.
6. The piece got what it needed out of Dr. Horton, but you should read Made In America to get the whole picture of what Horton would say if he had more time.7. Evangelicals: Want to know why thousands of us are looking toward Rome? How bad can Marian dogmas and purgatory be in comparison to a movement that has tens of millions of people hailing Osteen as the great Christian proclaimer of our age? From Graham to Osteen. God help us. You cannot help but feel dirty.
8. Osteen probably doesn’t have the knowledge to be able to judge his own errors in the light of Biblical truth. Sad, but true. He simply has no idea that he has no idea. He thinks Jesus, the Holy Trinity and the Holy Scriptures are all means to the end of having a better paycheck. According to Osteen tonight, you can get the same truths from any psychologist or motivational speaker.
9. The story no one seems to want to tell: Osteen never used the principles that are in his books in order to succeed. He dropped out of college after one year at ORU. (Too academic?) He was a media guy at his dad’s church. He was brought into the pulpit by his dad’s sudden death, and he was clueless. Parroted his dad’s methods for a couple of years, then found Norman Vincent Peale’s positive thinking and abandoned the Gospel for “life coaching.” In other words, he stumbled into daddy’s pulpit and found what drew the crowds. A guy with a message of personal improvement like Tony Robbins? Hardly.
God preached it though.
That's somewhat funny in a sad way. I suppose there might be some Osteenbots on FR. I pray that there are not but if there are some, may they find their way into a real church. I do know some people that love his message but it is not the Gospel message. It's a feel good, think positive message and some people need that. But it's not the same as letting God into your life.
Jesus needs to come back soon. And he needs to bring his whip with him.
This is why I don’t understand why FR puts Osteen stuff on here and then won’t allow comments due to some misplaced honor system to protect devotionals here. Why don’t we just print Al Sharpton’s crap and deny any comments because he’s a Reverend? I don’t see the difference.
God preached it though.
John 10
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
I believe a hireling is the same as a contractor but just not as talented and as greedy.
And it is true that the members of the early Church did live off of the gospel, they had every thing in common and it was probably just barely enough.
But we need to under line every thing in common.
Big difference when one member is living in a mansion and earing more than a middle income wage earner and another one has to depend on some one bringing him something to eat when they belong to the same Church.
Not to mention the rich contractors.
Funny you should say that:
I’ve always considered Joel Osteen to be more of a motivational speaker than anything else. The guy I’d really like to see investigated is Ron Parsley. His broadcasts aren’t sermons - they’re infomercials. (”God wants to bless you, but he can’t do it until you send me a $300.00 seed offering.”)
This is very true: A guy with a message of personal improvement like Tony Robbins? Hardly.
I did initially think of Tony Robbins when I first heard a Joel Osteen message/sermon, but the author is right. He's not Tony Robbins.
Tony Robbins was a huge motivational hit...for a while...but now I only occasionally hear his voice on radio commercials.
I believe Tony Robbins' own mental reprogramming material failed him due to his not including and paying homage to the original Master Programmer.
Osteen doesn't make this error while presenting the truth of that metal reprogramming because he gives every bit of credit to God. The only credit he gives to himself is having recognized the Truth of God as the Source of all.
I've noticed Osteen doesn't call his stuff a prosperity ministry or prosperity church. That's what others call it.
He says he'll take it though, since why would he preach the opposite of prosperity for those who hear and recognize that they are what the Bible says they are and who seek the God Most High?
And why do people only think of money prosperity, instead of prosperity in health, relationships and any other form of blessing God gives His children? What does that single minded focus say about them and the richness of their spirit?
For me, the material is correct and a practical application to our daily lives. In a way, I see humans as being like a radio receiver and we seek and self tune to receive anything, either of this world or of God. Freewill = freedom of choice and consequences are positive/negative feedback about the rightness of that choice.
For me, I see Osteen's material as being good for tuning my receiver to the God channel.
I seek prosperity in all things with a humbled spirit that recognizes the Truth and I feel love when I follow the Osteen messages, the ones that Vision offers for people to read or ignore.
I think it's something of a miracle that Osteen has been given this talent and that God has blessed this unworthy person (where have I seen this sort of thing before) with prosperity for following Him and bringing others to Him.
All I know is, his messages make me feel better when I feel bad and always make me feel good about God. As such, I now continue to look to God with thanks for everything, the easy and the difficult.
Osteen's messages encourage this conversation. Satan doesn't work like that. That's not his way and works against him. No wonder he works so hard to discredit it!
Just my opinion, your mileage may vary...
He is no Melissa Scott
Osteen does indeed peddle the prosperity gospel, just not as blatant as the old timers.
To him God is about parking spaces, and bigger umbrellas and the like.
Not about saving us from our sin.
Looking at the reactions some have, perhaps for some of us Osteen's stuff is not unlike the dark side cave on Dagobah where we find only what we bring with us?
I understand the point you're making. Some of us are really confused and need the sin message. For their/our own good.
On the other hand, many of us are suffering damage and are well aware of our sins, but not at all aware of God and His way. Why would we be? Why is that God is so often not seen in the actions/words/deeds of those who claim to follow Him?
Instead, it's too often like this joke:
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
He said, "Baptist!"
I said, "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of GOD or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
He said, "Baptist Church of GOD!"
I said, "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of GOD, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of GOD!"
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.
-- Emo Phillips
Yep, that's one way to baptize 'em!
(It's a good thing there are other ways to do that, huh? To each their own, I guess.)
Did Jesus die for our sins or to help us get a better parking place?
Did the prodigal son get a beating or a warm welcome when he came back home?
The prodigal is about Salvation.
Osteen is about self gratification.
And what's up with the older brother in that story? What's his problem?
Personally, I see Osteen has having been given a great gift in a place and time of great need. He speaks to people that others, preachers, priests and other Christians, do not or cannot.
They react to those people not unlike you react to Osteen, and that dislike, however strong, gets automatically transferred to what they now believe about Scripture. Not good. Spiritually damaged or dead is no way to go through life.
Speaking only for myself, I see the basis for Osteen's material, the "self-help ministry" as some call it, as being on solid ground as is. What he is telling people is how our minds, our core program, works and he's right.
But when he ties everything to God, the Source of all, and gets that inner conversation with God started in each of those who follow his advice and do what he is telling them to do, whatever their self gratifying motive, they will obviously benefit and be saved.
To me, it's genius and I wish I'd thought it through as he has. It's been in front of me all my life, same as with others, but Osteen sees it as it is and tells the world about it. It's his gift and it's interesting how it's being spread.
But with this gift comes this popularity/notoriety, making his life with such a gift a dangerous place to be for the wrong focus. (Lord, lead me not into temptation...)
As long as he is focused on God as the source, not himself or some false idol worldly passion, as long as he neither looks to his left or to his right, so to speak, he'll be prospered, just as he is being now.
But he and those around him are being tested and if he does or they do look left or right and follow a siren's song, he/they will suffer the same sort of Tammy Fay/Jim Baker/PTL fall, crash and burn that so many other have.
His stuff works and the other team will do all they can to discredit him and take him down. (sorta like in our politics, coincidence?)
The other side will whatever it takes to get his audience to stop listening and not hear what the Holy Spirit says through him and through others who let Him use them that way.
He'll be fine as long as his conversation with God continues and he shares what the Holy Spirit wants him to share. All credit goes to God.
There are some things that no amount of coffee can fix, like with me and spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc....
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