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To: Heart-Rest

I suspect the root of our differences begins with a few assumptions.

We both recognize the old man has an old sin nature.

We understand that in our eternal state, we will be with God without sin (I need Scriptural support of this statement).

So somehow we must transition between our present state to the other.

In part, we have the new man who is sinless, which I would identify with our saved self.

We also have guidance from the epistles upon how we are continually sanctified by the work of God the Holy Spirit in us, while we remain in fellowship with God and intake the Word.

We know that he also have predestined rewards, which if we remain in fellowship with Him and perform good works through faith in Him, we might be rewarded at the bema seat with them.

We also know that prior to the first death, we will still sin or else we call God a liar.

Therefore we know that at the first death, there will remain a part of us in our old man, which is still sinful, both in body and soul. Our spirit though, as identified with our soul as the new man will ascend to be present with the Lord.

We know we (our bodies) will be raised incorruptible at the Rapture.

We also know we will be sifted/sorted as if by fire, to burn off that which is not pure, ... to remove the dross. This also happens before the first death, as we are tested in our sanctification processes on our daily walk with God through faith in Christ.

We also know we do not earn our salvation.

We know we are redeemed from the slave market of sin, regenerated in our human spirit, justified through faith, reconciled to God the Father by the work of Christ on the Cross, and all our sins have been judged at the Cross, allowing us to be forgiven upon acceptance of faith in Him and confession of our sins to Him.

We also know that God provides for our salvation.

I don’t see the necessity of our suffering Purgatory to justify God’s work in saving us.


81 posted on 11/18/2014 1:25:58 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr
I don’t see the necessity of our suffering Purgatory to justify God’s work in saving us.

Neither do I. Nice synopsis of the Biblical reasons why there will NOT be some place called "Purgatory" or the need to suffer after physical death for "temporal" punishments due our "minor" sins. If the blood of Christ cleanses us from ALL sin - and God clearly says it does - then what possible purpose would there be for such an intermediate place? I don't see that there is one.

133 posted on 11/18/2014 12:45:43 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Cvengr

Well laid out post. Indeed He has promised those who are His sheep will have the corrupt replaced with incorruptible. For that is the only way to enter His Glorious Kingdom.


164 posted on 11/18/2014 7:26:04 PM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: Cvengr
Cvengr, we disagree on a number of the points you made there, including your views on purgatory (which the Catholic Church teaches is not for a soul's "salvation", but rather, to prepare them after being saved to enter heaven and behold the "Holy Face of God").

Here's another link you might want to take a look at when you get a chance:

   "Saint Augustine on Purgatory" by Dr. Taylor Marshall.

Various Protestants believe various things about what humans have to do to be saved (including possibly saying the "sinner's prayer", "accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior", getting baptized, etc.)

No matter what they believe a human has to do to be saved, there is always something, even if it is just a tiny little action like those mentioned here.    And I do not think very many Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox Christians would try to claim that as soon as they believed and accepted that salvation of God, they all of a sudden became completely perfect and holy, and stopped sinning completely, and did not need to grow in their virtue and holiness by the Grace of God.

However, I appreciate your taking the time to lay out your beliefs like you did there, and maybe we can both pray for each other that we'll both grow in wisdom and knowledge and understanding concerning these important matters.

180 posted on 11/19/2014 10:15:15 PM PST by Heart-Rest ("Our hearts are restless, Lord, until they rest in Thee." - St. Augustine)
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