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To: daniel1212
But since it is top down, then you are not to engage in interpreting her, but follow Rome as she interprets herself, and which V2 manifests she can do, even if conservative sects dissent from it in part. Yet they interpret themselves as being the Real RCs.

The job of "Rome" is not to "interpret" anything.

It is to safeguard the faith intact, handed down from the Apostles.

"Rome" does not have a license to invent, innovate or create.

When conservatives "dissent" from pronouncements emanating from Rome, they are not following their own, latter day, self-authored theology like the latest off-shoot of the local storefront. Rather, they are comparing Rome's current position with 2,000 years of apostolic tradition and history. They are comparing current theology with the teaching of saints, apostles, Church Councils, Popes and Doctors of the Church.That's the anchor which keeps us moored.

"Top down" means that Rome's hands are tied to 2,000 years of teaching coming from Jesus and handed on to the Apostles.

76 posted on 11/13/2014 8:53:46 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

My SBC teaches directly from the Bible. Every Protestant church I have been to, does too. I have been to many over the years. It seems like what Catholics believe changes over the years If you believe the Bible, do not worry about traditions. They are not as important as the Word of God. Men have been wrong but the Bible stands forever. Frankly, I do not like some traditions. Reminds me of dems voting for dems because my pa voted that way, my grandpa did, and my great grandpa did. Why change? Some got smart and quit doing what ancestors did.


93 posted on 11/14/2014 7:07:24 AM PST by MamaB
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To: marshmallow
The job of "Rome" is not to "interpret" anything. It is to safeguard the faith intact, handed down from the Apostles.

Sorry i missed your reply, but that is your interpretation, even of interpretation, and maybe "understanding" would be better, but it is obvious that Rome engages in interpretation that it seems you disagree with:

Among other teachings, taking such declarations as that of Unam Sanctam: by Pope Boniface VIII,

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff... there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " (Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302),

And rendering it,

"..there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ..

They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood." — LUMEN GENTIUM: 16.

…those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.” “All who have been justified by Faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ: they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church,” - Dominus Iesus

certainly is a form of interpretation.

When conservatives "dissent" from pronouncements emanating from Rome, they are not following their own, latter day, self-authored theology like the latest off-shoot of the local storefront. Rather, they are comparing Rome's current position with 2,000 years of apostolic tradition and history. They are comparing current theology with the teaching of saints, apostles, Church Councils, Popes and Doctors of the Church.That's the anchor which keeps us moored.

But you are judging the judges based upon what you see in prior teaching, which is what RCs reject in criticizing us (though our supreme standard is Scripture), telling us we need to submit to the living magisterium. It is no wonder some of your brethren call you Protestant.

It is obvious that your judgment is not shared by the living magisterium. One your own (it seems) expresses the attitude of the present magisterium:

All the post-Conciliar "popes" have stated that the Council was guided by the Holy Spirit. Paul VI, in closing the Council stated that "the teaching authority of the Church, even though not wishing to issue extraordinary dogmatic pronouncements, has made thoroughly known its authoritative teaching." Still later he stated that the Council "avoided proclaiming in an extraordinary manner dogmas endowed with the note of infallibility" but that it conferred on its teachings "the value of the supreme ordinary Magisterium" (Speech of Jan 12, 1966), and that "it has as much authority and far greater importance than the Council of Nicea". Elsewhere he has called it "the greatest of Councils", and "even greater than the Council of Trent."[10] Perhaps the most clear cut statement is to be found in a letter to Archbishop Lefebvre demanding his submission to the post-Conciliar Church:

You have no right any more to bring up the distinction between the doctrinal and the pastoral that you use to support your acceptance of certain texts of Vatican Council II and your rejection of others. It is true that the matters decided in any Council do not all call for an assent of the same quality; only what the Council affirms in its 'definitions' as a truth of faith or as bound up with faith requires the assent of faith. Nevertheless, the rest also form a part of the SOLEMN MAGISTERIUM of the Church, to be trustingly accepted and sincerely put into practice by every Catholic." - http://www.the-pope.com/wvat2tec.html

And judging the pastor is contrary to the spirit of VEHEMENTER NOS:

It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock, those who occupy a rank in the different degrees of the hierarchy and the multitude of the faithful. So distinct are these categories that with the pastoral body only rests the necessary right and authority for promoting the end of the society and directing all its members towards that end; the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastor

And

The leadership of the Apostolic See has always been active, and therefore because of its preeminent authority , the whole Church must agree with it." (On Faith And Religion), Encyclical promulgated on November 9, 1846, #11. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quiplu.htm

102 posted on 11/15/2014 9:53:35 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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