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To: Gamecock
Good question. Perhaps that has something to do with church discipline?


If so, I think it must be poorly worded.

I did some background research and Sproul does teach the perseverance of the saints and eternal security. So it wouldn’t make sense that the question would refer to the ability of the Church to declare believers to be unbelievers. http://www.ligonier.org/learn/qas/what-doctrine-eternal-security/ http://www.ligonier.org/learn/qas/it-possible-christian-lose-his-salvation-because-s/

I also looked up what he had to say on Church Authority. But it refers to whether one is in ‘good standing’ which sounds more like a separation of fellowship not a declaration of salvation or one’s Christianity. As I understand it Church discipline is to hopefully bring a fellow believer to repentance and back into the fellowship of the Church. http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/church-authority/

“…Excommunication from a local body is hardly ever taken seriously since it rarely prevents someone from joining the church next door with no questions asked....Yet our private sins; are the church’s business, and her judgments, when they conform to Scripture, are divinely authorized. We see this in today’s passage as Jesus in Matthew 18:18-19 gives to the apostles primarily, and the church derivatively, the keys of the kingdom first given to... Church discipline decides whether or not a person is a member in good standing of Christ’s church, and such decisions have weight only if they agree with God’s Word. …The church’s ability to liberate people, says John Calvin, is not limited to the restoration of disciplined members to full participation in the congregation. Such liberation is also discharged when elders, according to Scripture, assure repentant people of pardon after sin is confessed. This “awakens in the godly no ordinary confidence, when they hear that their sins are blotted out before God and angels, as soon as they have obtained forgiveness from the Church.”

Given the above, the question is either asking does the Church have the right to tell me I was never really a Christian? Again, the answer is no, especially if they are using a work based criteria (Eph 2:8-9). This would seem especially true when taken into account with the doctrine of election. This leads to the old how much can I sin and be a Christian; or if I sin too big does that prove I was never really a Christian debates. A debate always accompanied by a whole host of can “real Christian” do x and still be Christian tag-along questions. As the greatest theologian Freepers can debate this for pages on end and even the great theologians don’t agree I don’t see how the local Church could be the master of such questions.

Or is the question asking does the Church have the right to tell me I’m not a Christian if I haven’t accepted Christ according to the Biblical doctrine of salvation, that is if I’m trusting in something other than Jesus to save me. In which case, the answer is yes. The 3rd option is that the question is mean to ask if the local church has the right to eject someone from their fellowship, but that’s not what it says. A church can kick me out for some aberrant doctrine (and I’m sure some reformed churches would if I wanted to be a member) or for some sin; but it doesn’t correlate they can declare me to no longer be a Christian. Only God knows that.

If Sproul wrote this question then I’m amazed at the ambiguity. I don’t even know what I would have answered as I still can’t decide what he is asking.

11 posted on 10/28/2014 11:54:43 AM PDT by Idaho_Cowboy (Ride for the Brand. Joshua 24:15)
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To: Idaho_Cowboy

I am scratching my head over it too.

Just don’t know.


13 posted on 10/28/2014 1:19:22 PM PDT by Gamecock (USA, Ret.)
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