If understand them correctly The Church pretty much agrees with all that you reported upon and is proud of it. They may see some of the things in a little different light or perhaps use a little different wording, more flattering wording but pretty much means the same thing.
To Mormons a just God would not let people who have never heard the word of God be sentenced to Hell for eternity. This is one thing I find fascinating about the Mormon religion.
I do believe in life after death, I haven’t a clue what it is though. While I don’t know what it is I think the way the Mormons see it looks pretty interesting. Nobody else talks much about it, it is either Heaven or Hell and if you don’t confess Jesus Christ as Savior then it is Hell. I think the Mormon theology offers a little hope to those who have never heard the name of Jesus Christ. If God is our Father and He does love us then I think He would provide a way of salvation to all His children and not depend on the luck of the draw.
Ah, JA, I highlighted the phrase above which contained the most irony in the context of what you stated. Why does it qualify as such?
Simple...you attempt to make a case for universal salvation in which God the Father would somehow ensure His children find His way back into His presence, which you mistakenly equate to what Mormonism teaches!
They teach anything but that!
My proof? From Mormonism's own "scriptures" & general authorities layout of Mormon doctrine?
Well, two years ago I ran a vanity entitled, THE TOP TEN MOST SURPRISING 'MORMON TEACHINGS' ABOUT MORMON HEAVEN and AFTER-LIFE [Vanity]
So what, JA, do ya think qualified as #1 on that list??? (Perhaps you need to have a convo with your wife's bishop about these quotes below, eh?)
1. | Mormon theology about heaven says it's a place -- at least for the 99% of people who would live there -- where Christians don't get to live with Heavenly Father forever!!!!! | When Mormons talk about eternal life & exaltation, they're not just talking about "heaven" What's the "rest of the story"? * Mormons believe that only their Melchizedek priests (D&C 76:57) are the ones eligible for dwell[ing] in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever. (D&C 76:62) In the Mormon view of heaven, ONLY those entering into Mormon "covenants" and obeying fully Mormon laws get to live forever in God's presence: * Eternal life is living with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in the celestial kingdom. This blessing--which is also called exaltation--comes only to those who keep the commandments and make the necessary covenants (Source: Preparing for Exaltation Teacher's Manual, p. 4, 1998) * Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift. Eternal life, or exaltation, is to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, where we will live in Gods presence and continue as families. (same source, p. 52) * Eternal life is a higher state than immortality alone and means to live forever in a resurrected condition in the presence of God, and to become like God Eternal life is exaltation into the type and quality of life that God lives. Receiving eternal life is conditional, predicated upon obedience to the fullness of gospel law and ordinances (D&C 29:43-44; 130:20-21). It requires voluntary obedience to all of the ordinances and principles of the gospel continuing through the covenants of the Endowment and marriage in the temple (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:677-678) |
So do you comprehend what I'm saying...?
You commend Mormonism for somehow finding a way for all to be reunited with Heavenly Father -- ALL as Mormonism teaches that...
...nobody EXCEPT MARRIED temple Mormons who keep ALL of the covenants & commandments of Mormonism will get to live forever in Heavenly Father's presence!
Oh, sure the "middle degree of glory" people can live forever with the Mormon Jesus. But the lower degree of glory...most of the people you are likely referencing with your comments above, JA, are actually people who per Mormonism wouldn't get to live forever with either Heavenly Father or Jesus!!!!
Even the most faithful Mormons...if they ain't married...or the most faithful non-Mormon Christians...are, per Mormonism (see chart above0 excluded from the Mormon Father's presence forever!!!! (And you deem that heaven??? Really?)
Sorry, JA, but if you fail to be reconciled to HEAVENLY FATHER & JESUS -- that is not "Heaven" -- no matter how much Mormon lore says so!!!
Oh?
How is this different than what the Bible states?
Romans 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
It seems that you need to do a wee bit MORE than that...
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
Mormonism really doesn't HAVE a 'hell'.
AFTERLIFE: The Mormon afterlife is divided up into four levels. From the lowest to the highest they are: hell, and then three levels of heaven: the telestial, the terrestrial, and the place where God dwells, the celestial (also called the kingdom of God). The celestial is also divided, the highest level being "exaltation," or becoming a God.
HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):
HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.
Mormonism has taught that those in the Telestial kingdom will have paid for their own sins in spirit prison, a temporary hell which serves as a place of purging before entrance into heaven (cf. D&C 138: 58-59).
Orson F. Whitney preached:
"But those who reject the Gospel altogether and are besotted and crimestained---what of them? It is written that they will be thrust down to hell; even the murderer, the liar, the sorcerer, and the whoremonger. They will, in short, be damned. But they will only be damned to the extent justified by their sins. Even for them there is hope, after they have 'paid the uttermost farthing.' They will be punished, as all men must be, for neglect of duty, for transgression of the laws of God; but after they have been punished sufficiently, they will be brought forth and saved in a glory of which the stars in heaven are typical." ("The Three Great Teachers", May 8, 1898; Brian H. Stuy, ed., Collected Discourses 1886-1898, v. 5)
Chapter 41 of the 2009 Gospel Principles manual quotes D&C 19 and concurs the same:
"Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, 'Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit' (D&C 19:16-18). After suffering in full for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom" (Gospel Principles, 2009, p. 244).
Mormonism really doesn't HAVE a 'hell'.
"Now, it may be contended that a judgment, with some degree of salvation for all, encourages the sinner to pursue his dark ways. Not so. However generous the judgment, it is measured by our works. Our punishment will be the heavy regret that we might have received a greater reward, a higher kingdom, had our lives conformed more nearly to truth. Such remorse may yield keener pain than physical torture." (Understandable Religion, p. 89)
While Widtsoe is careful not to call a heavenly kingdom "hell", he is nonetheless certain that there will be a keen regret for lost opportunities:
"Humanity will be grouped according to their works in three main divisions: Celestial (like the sun), Telestial (like the moon), Terrestrial (like the earth). Within each group there will be many gradations and divisions, until from the lowest to the highest in all groups there will be a series of gradually ascending glories. There can be no talk of a hell, except for the few 'sons of Perdition,' but undoubtedly the regret for lost opportunities will be keen among those in the lower degrees of glory." (Program of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 226)
Joseph Fielding Smith, on the other hand, considers the tormenting regret experienced in the bottom two heavenly kingdoms and concludes "in that sense it will be hell":
"This earth will become a celestial kingdom when it is sanctified. Those who enter the terrestrial kingdom will have to go to some other sphere which will be prepared for them. Those who enter the telestial kingdom, likewise will have to go to some earth which is prepared for them, and there will be another place which is hell where the devil and those who are punished to go with him will dwell. Of course, those who enter the telestial kingdom, and those who enter the terrestrial kingdom will have the eternal punishment which will come to them in knowing that they might, if they had kept the commandments of the Lord, have returned to his presence as his sons and his daughters. This will be a torment to them, and in that sense it will be hell." (Answers to Gospel Questions, v. 2, p. 210)
This line of thinking is interesting in light of Joseph Smith's following teaching:
"A man is his own tormenter and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone" (TPJS, p. 357)
The entry in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism on "Damnation" essentially explains that the bottom two kingdoms of heaven are kingdoms of damnation:
"Just as there are varying degrees and types of salvation, coupled with eternal progression in some areas (D&C 76:96-98; 131:1-4), so are there varying degrees and types of damnation. In LDS doctrine, to be damned means to be stopped, blocked, or limited in one's progress. Individuals are damned whenever they are prevented from reaching their full potential as children of God. Damnation is falling short of what one might have enjoyed if one had received and been faithful to the whole law of the gospel. In this sense, all who do not achieve the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom are damned, even though they are saved in some degree of glory."
This would be what we Christians call Dead Dunking: the Mormon practice of being proxy 'baptised' for the dead, whose NAME is invoked in the ritual.
Supposedly the dead person then has a CHANCE to accept Christ as savior.
In actuality, there are MILLIONS of dead people whose name will NEVER be known; thus the Mormon practice is quite limited.
J; do YOU confess Jesus Christ as Lord?