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Woke up this fine Sunday morning, went to Church, and then decided I was probably being too obscure, too much the star of "Ask Mrs. Einstein" in #35 and #36 to make a helpful contribution.

So if I may, let me make the same point in 2 simple sentences:

The Popes' statements are true, understood in this sense: that it is grave matter (objectively very very bad) to be separated from the Church. And yet...
this cannot be the kind of sin that results in being eternally lost, if the person did not know, or did not fully consent, to be separated from the Church. Mortal sin is a matter of grave evil done with knowledge and deliberation.

I have sometimes volleyed back and forth with non-believers who dared me, or baited me, to say the Catholic Church would consign them to hell. They seemingly wanted me to say (or "admit") that I (we) consider them damned.

This I won't and can't do, knowing that God ardently wills their salvation, and yours, and mine.

One must trust in Jesus when you perceive Him near, like the thief. Love Him and love our neighbor, as Jesus said: all the Laws and all of the Prophets depend on this. On this, too, depends all the teachings of the Church and all practices of our Faith.

I hope that makes it both cordial and clear?

Now I am going off to enjoy a birthday brownie. Wish I could give you one!

>>to say the Catholic Church would consign them to hell.<<

The underlying premise being that the Catholic Church has any authority whatsoever which it does not. That authority is a made up construct not supported by scripture. There is no way an organization that incorporates paganism can be the representative of God on earth.

I have sometimes volleyed back and forth with non-believers who dared me, or baited me, to say the Catholic Church would consign them to hell. They seemingly wanted me to say (or "admit") that I (we) consider them damned.

I'm sorry if it seemed that I was trying to bait you into anything. That was not the intent of those posts.

It was rather to show what official Catholic teaching has been throughout the years and still is and what some Catholics still cling to.

If you have read most of these threads, you ought to be aware that not only are there Catholics who consign me to hell, as has already been done on this very thread, but who think that heretics should be eliminated. We've seen it on two different threads from the same poster.

IMO, the Catholic church was NEVER given the authority to override God's forgiveness granted to men and retain their sins, resulting in essentially sending them to hell.

That in no way represents Jesus who came to seek and save the lost. Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world but to save it and tells us that salvation is through HIM.

He didn't need to set up a religion by which men could come to God by their works or efforts, or keeping the Law.

There was already on established by God Himself handed down from Mt Sinai.

He came to freely give us mercy and grace for the asking, without condition, including membership in an organization or bondage to effort on our part.

You are on the horns of a dilemma.

Catholic church teaching is clear. You either agree with it, or not and I don't see a lot of leeway for the laity to personally interpret it as they would like. Which is something Protestants are forever being castigated for.

Enjoy your birthday brownie for me.