Posted on 10/23/2014 1:37:07 PM PDT by Gamecock
VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Francis called for abolition of the death penalty as well as life imprisonment, and denounced what he called a "penal populism" that promises to solve society's problems by punishing crime instead of pursuing social justice.
"It is impossible to imagine that states today cannot make use of another means than capital punishment to defend peoples' lives from an unjust aggressor," the pope said Oct. 23 in a meeting with representatives of the International Association of Penal Law.
All Christians and people of good will are thus called today to struggle not only for abolition of the death penalty, whether it be legal or illegal and in all its forms, but also to improve prison conditions, out of respect for the human dignity of persons deprived of their liberty. And this, I connect with life imprisonment," he said. "Life imprisonment is a hidden death penalty."
The pope noted that the Vatican recently eliminated life inprisonment from its own penal code.
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, cited by Pope Francis in his talk, "the traditional teaching of the church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor," but modern advances in protecting society from dangerous criminals mean that "cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."
The pope said that, although a number of countries have formally abolished capital punishment, "the death penalty, illegally and to a varying extent, is applied all over the planet," because "extrajudicial executions" are often disguised as "clashes with offenders or presented as the undesired consequences of the reasonable, necessary and proportionate use of force to apply the law."
The pope denounced the detention of prisoners without trial, who he said account for more than 50 percent of all incarcerated people in some countries. He said maximum security prisons can be a form of torture, since their "principal characteristic is none other than external isolation," which can lead to "psychic and physical sufferings such as paranoia, anxiety, depression and weight loss and significantly increase the chance of suicide."
He also rebuked unspecified governments involved in kidnapping people for "illegal transportation to detention centers in which torture is practiced."
The pope said criminal penalties should not apply to children, and should be waived or limited for the elderly, who "on the basis of their very errors can offer lessons to the rest of society. We don't learn only from the virtues of saints but also from the failings and errors of sinners."
Pope Francis said contemporary societies overuse criminal punishment, partially out of a primitive tendency to offer up "sacrificial victims, accused of the disgraces that strike the community."
The pope said some politicians and members of the media promote "violence and revenge, public and private, not only against those responsible for crimes, but also against those under suspicion, justified or not."
He denounced a growing tendency to think that the "most varied social problems can be resolved through public punishment ... that by means of that punishment we can obtain benefits that would require the implementation of another type of social policy, economic policy and policy of social inclusion."
Using techniques similar to those of racist regimes of the past, the pope said, unspecified forces today create "stereotypical figures that sum up the characteristics that society perceives as threatening."
Pope Francis concluded his talk by denouncing human trafficking and corruption, both crimes he said "could never be committed without the complicity, active or passive, of public authorities."
The pope spoke scathingly about the mentality of the typical corrupt person, whom he described as conceited, unable to accept criticism, and prompt to insult and even persecute those who disagree with him.
"The corrupt one does not perceive his own corruption. It is a little like what happens with bad breath: someone who has it hardly ever realizes it; other people notice and have to tell him," the pope said. "Corruption is an evil greater than sin. More than forgiveness, this evil needs to be cured."
“Many countries do not have life imprisonment. Mexico, for example, is 30 years maximum.”
So we will get our Marine back eventually. Great.
I think that when we take the position that these isssues don’t deserve very serious consideration, we’re saying, “So and so doesn’t deserve forgiveness.” Well, I don’t deserve forgiveness. None of us deserves forgiveness, none of us earns salvation.
What is there other than unmerited mercy from God?
What I can say is, our adults are for the most part longtime Christians, educated, have already pretty much decided they want to be Catholic, stick with it even though they have to go through 9 months of instruction, already get that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ, and therefore want the Catholic Church to be Catholic.
(You undoubtedly think they're wrong from the git-go, but that's not my point.)
My point is, I worry that they'll get freaked by apparent Episcopalian-type conflicts within the household of the Faith, on basic doctrines like the indissolubility of marriage. That doctrine ain't going away, never in a million years, but just creating the appearance that it might, is baffling to them and a real morale-buster.
That's why I say --- sardonically, but there's some truth in it --- that "confusion is mightier than the catechism."
I once debated Frances Kissling on the radio. She was he longtime head of "Catholics for Choice." She is not even a nominal Christian, never went to Mass, rejected the Faith and Morals which have come down to us from the Apostles and all the rest of it --- a total fake, really. But she was full of pseud-scholarly argle-bargle about the history of Canon Law, which she completely misconstrued. As in, lied about.
She openly admitted to me (away from the microphones) that she realized that the Church would never, ever, ever say abortion was OK, but no matter: she just had to introduce the idea that this moral law was debatable. That it was dubious. That it was up in the air. That there could be some merit on both sides.
I did a lot of debating way back when, and faced all kinds of abortion supporters, scores of them I suppose, but there were only two that I thought were intentionally, knowingly, consistently lying: Bill Baird and Frances Kissling.
Creating doubt, creating confusion is their whole strategy.
That's why I think this run-up to the 2015 Family Synod was a disaster. No change of doctrine of course. Won't happen. But creating the impression that it's up for grabs gets the devil's job done nicely.
I have to say that for this, Pope Francis is responsible --- or he's irresponsible.
I understand that the smackdown of Cardinal Kasper and his clique on October 16 was pretty muscular, and indicates that the doctrinally strong Bishops will have time to organize, now that the "wolves in shepherds' clothing" are pretty much unmasked. Thank God for Africa.
Evil won't win but --- as usual --- the good have to get in there and fight.
Nothing, according to Scripture. Here in Virginia, it seems we've lost the fortitude to prescribe the death penalty. It's rarely used anymore. Earlier this year, a local man beat his elderly mother-in-law to death because she wouldn't give him money. He was sentenced to 35 years.
I'm sticking with this:
"And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.
“Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind."
Genesis 9.
I’m not anti Catholic, I just think the things espoused of late are weird.
There is a difference between killing and murder. Killing is justified homicide. Murder is unjustified homicide.
The execution of murderers is justified homicide. There is no Godly sanction against it---in fact, He demands it. Genesis 9.
There were eternal souls at stake in the Old Testament as well as the New. If the Law given by God to Moses was just and good, then the state has every right to use the death penalty AS PUNISHMENT. Why? Because it is JUST! God said so, Himself.
Who is the Pope to refute God?
Should every woman who has had an abortion be executed?
“Should every woman who has had an abortion be executed?”
If the state set that as a punishment for killing the unborn, in what sense would it be unjust?
I was asking you to make a global moral commitment, rather than a nuanced, “What’s the letter of the law?” quibble.
But let’s ask a different question. Should every kid who cusses out his parents in a fit of temper over losing the car keys be executed?
Fair response. And, you are correct about me believing the Scriptures do not support the view that the Roman Catholic Church was founded by Christ. But, it is very interesting to me that you (and most Catholics) hold to what you believe is in the Scriptures when you wish to contest what is coming from your organization. That is, you point to “...on this rock...” as the proof positive that Rome is the “church”, but now dislike what is publicly being promulgated and reject the “Vicar of Christ’s” opinions. A novel idea and probably useful if this pope begins to wander as far from Scripture as, say, John XII.
What does God think is just? Hmmm?
Yes, the state has the right to set levels of punishment. When God set them, He took cussing out your parents very seriously. He took killing others very seriously. He took homosexual acts very seriously.
That we do not reflects our immorality, not our goodness.
Pope must have also been a community organizer.
Shameful person he is.
Are you saying that everyone who disrespects his parents, commits sodomy, worships false gods, or commits adultery should be executed?
***************************
It is only God that forgives us.
We can make our own beliefs known, and we can try to convince ourselves and others that forgiveness is ours, but at the end, only God can forgive us.
It is His mercy that we require.
God said certain crimes were serious enough to justify killing the criminal.
Do YOU think God was unjust? Unrealistic?
Do you believe the God of the Old Testament was a Mean Old Man, and the Jesus came and changed God into a sweet, anything goes person? Or did Jesus banish the God of the Old Testament to the attic, where He is now hiding until the end of time?
What is YOUR theology?
Did God change between 1000 BC, 33 AD and 2014 AD?
The more I know that I need mercy, the more I think others should receive mercy from me. Maybe I’m wrong, but I have nothing to live on but unmerited mercy.
As I’ve said above, I’m not making decisions about death penalties. I have a vote, but what effect it has on anything past the City Sewer Board level, I’m sure I don’t know.
I was on the jury panel once for a capital murder case, but the judge told me I was a smartass, thanked me for the amusement value, and said I was “dismissed for cause.”
It’s as if you’re not answering my questions, but just proposing other questions. Good evening, happy Thursday, and all that.
Not exactly. The Catechism states that it may be necessary in rare cases.
I agree.
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