Posted on 10/20/2014 2:02:16 PM PDT by NYer
.- Two Christian ministers in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, could face legal punishment or be forced to sell their nearly 100-year-old wedding chapel for declining to perform same-sex “wedding” ceremonies.
“Many have denied that pastors would ever be forced to perform ceremonies that are completely at odds with their faith, but that’s what is happening here – and it’s happened this quickly,” Jeremy Tedesco, senior legal counsel with the legal group Alliance Defending Freedom, said Oct. 18.
“The government should not force ordained ministers to act contrary to their faith under threat of jail time and criminal fines,” he said. “The city cannot erase these fundamental freedoms and replace them with government coercion and intolerance.”
Tedesco responded to the changing legal climate in Idaho, which is threatening the work of David and Evelyn Knapp, ordained ministers of the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel.
Married for 47 years, the couple has operated the Hitching Post Wedding Chapel since 1989. The 95-year-old chapel sits across the street from the Kootenai County Clerk’s office.
Coeur d’Alene’s city officials have told the Knapps that their refusal to perform a same-sex ceremony at their chapel violates the city’s anti-discrimination policy. For each day they refuse to perform the ceremony, they face up to 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines.
The city’s application of its anti-discrimination ordinance follows a federal court override of Idaho’s constitutional amendment that defined marriage as a union of one man and one woman.
The Alliance Defending Freedom has filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of the Knapps seeking a temporary restraining order against the city law.
“If the Knapps refuse to perform one same-sex ceremony for one week, they risk going to jail for over three years and being fined $7,000,” the lawsuit said. “If the Knapps refuse to perform one same-sex ceremony for 30 days, they risk going to jail for over 14 years and being fined $30,000. If the Knapps refuse to perform one same-sex ceremony for a year, they risk going to jail for 180 years and being fined $365,000.”
The Knapps’ limited liability corporation which operates the chapel, Hitching Post Weddings, says in its founding statement that the business intends to promote biblical marriage.
The chapel’s religious ceremonies invoke God’s blessing on the newlyweds and cite the Bible in encouraging the couple to have a successful marriage. Couples married at the chapel receive a CD with two sermons about marriage and receive recommendations for many Christian books on marriage. The Knapps charge a small fee for marriages at the chapel.
“The city is on seriously flawed legal ground, and our lawsuit intends to ensure that this couple’s freedom to adhere to their own faith as pastors is protected just as the First Amendment intended,” Tedesco said.
The lawsuit charges that the city’s application of the law also violates Idaho’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act.
Donald Knapp in May told the Spokane, Washington news station KXLY that he “cannot unite people in a way that I believe would conflict with what the Bible teaches.”
“I don't hate those people. I don't think anybody should ever be abusive or mistreat them or anything like that, but I cannot in clear conscience unite such a couple,” he said.
The Knapps said in May that if the law forces them to perform the same-sex ceremonies they will look into selling the chapel.
Warren Wilson, an official with the city attorney’s office, in May told the Spokane Spokesman-Review that the Hitching Post would “probably be considered a place of accommodation” that would be subject to the city’s anti-discrimination ordinance.
Jonathan Scruggs, legal counsel with the Alliance Defending Freedom, said the city “cannot mandate across-the-board conformity to its interpretation of a city ordinance in utter disregard for the guaranteed freedoms Americans treasure in our society.”
“The city somehow expects ordained pastors to flip a switch and turn off all faithfulness to their God and their vows,” he said.
This is Christian persecution, plain and simple. There are plenty of places that will accommodate the queers, but their TRUE agenda is to put these Christians out of business.
Yes, it is. This is class warfare at its most blatant and abusive.
Since it is a for profit business .....
But they may be able to exclude all but 1 witness and refuse to sigh the marriage license.
They could call another to do the ceremony since I do not believe that an individual person can be forced to do something against their will. The Cake baker and the photographer could have called in another to do the work for the business.
Get some hobo ordained on the internet and hire him do the ceremony at the hitching post.
The customer could go down the street to another business that offers homosexual weddings, cakes, and photos. How difficult is that? I don’t go to a kosher deli and demand un kosher meat or cry about it after. I don’t go to a pharmacy and demand they sell me a medicine that they do not stock.
The licensed business entity "Hitching Post" has no religious belief.
This business sells traditional wedding ceremonies. They don’t sell the new product that homosexual couples want to buy. So go find the new product that some enterprising godless person is selling. There is a great opportunity for fake reverends to make money.
And that is what the gay couple would have to purchase, wo0rding and all. Ask the couple which is the man and which is the woman; gays do not like that.
Our church charges registered members of the parish a nominal fee (around $500 including the organist and altar boy) but it socks it to the non-members who are looking for a good-looking traditional church to get married in. I'm not sure of the exact amount, but it's several thousand dollars.
This "public accommodation" stuff is about the only excuse the homosexual lobby has got here, and it really isn't going to fly. These ministers are real ordained ministers, they are in Sister Aimee Semple McPherson's old denomination -- which, whatever you may have thought of her, is certainly a "real" church.
+ 1.
You’re probably right. The govt is going to have to be put in line the hard way some day. It’s going to hurt. If people had done this in Germany a few years ago, there would not have been death camps. A little firm push back against thugs goes a long way.
Just like the multi-state corporation Hobby Lobby has no religious belief? Seems that the Supreme Court disagrees with you.
I think in at least one of those cases, the business owner did refer them to another business, but that wasn't good enough. It is not about getting just anyone to bake their cake, or take their pictures or perform their ceremony - they already know there are plenty of places and people for that. This is specifically about forcing CHRISTIANS to do so against their will, or be forced out of business.
I don’t know if some are suffering from normalacy bias here but it seems some FReepers believe these people don’t have standing to resist such an ordinance. This notion couldn’t be more wrong.
Despite the posts that point out the Foursquare denomination is indeed a real church, that’s beside the point. It’s irrelevant what religious background these people have. Or their corporation.
The salient point is that these are individual people operating a private business. They are not government employees or operating on behalf of the government. They are only licensed to perform weddings and that’s it. There is no state endorsed anything here.
So the state has no compelling interest in regulating their activities other than they already are. These people should be free to wed who they wish. This is the incrementalism we all rightfully fear around here. We can’t allow this incremental tyranny to proceed.
“They came for Foursquare marriage chapels but I said nothing because I don’t own a marriage chapel or belong to the Foursquare church”.
Wake up people. The devil isn’t going to make this obvious.
They could call in the minister from Westboro Baptist Church to officiate. The couple is buying a traditional Christian wedding and all which that implies.
And who gets to decide wither another person's religious belief/practice is "thick" enough to be recognized under the First Amendment or respected by law? Maybe set up a panel of people to interrogate these ordained ministers and grant approval/disapproval on the basis of an attitude test?
You want to be on that panel?
Or what if you were being judged on the legitimacy of your beliefs, and I were on the panel judging you?
As it was, the Knapps will not be facing jail. Not sure if the gay couple backed off or the city changed their mind.
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