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To: GeronL; DarkSavant; metmom
GeronL, I don't have time for this because I have to finish up the parish newsletter, write the G.K. Chesterton discussion quesitons for tonight, and then get out and stomp around with a "Pro-.Life/YesOn1" sign at the nearest TN Early Voting poll site

But it just gets tedious when people who have been around here for years, like you, and who should know better, feel they can slapdash any manner of snips'n'snails together and pass it off it Catholic Doctrine. Look, I don't mind a robust argument. But that only happens when you're actually giving an accurate account of what the other guys believe.

"A church that thinks Mary was God’s daughter..."

Would you please explain what you mean by this? Mary could be described as a "daughter" only in the sense that I can, in the sense that she is a handmaid, knows herself to be a handmaid, and is being addressed by an Archangel as a handmaid: a servant of her Savior. She is not, however, a "daughter" in a sense parallel to Jesus Christ being God's Son. Jesus Christ is God. Mary is a handmaid. Got that? Then you agree with what the Catholic Church believes about Mary.

"...born and lived without sin..."

Please checkout a relevant item in Biblical Koine Greek (LINK). You may not agree with it, but can't deny it's Biblical and denotes something unique: the title Kecharitomene is used nowhere else in any Biblical or non-Biblical Greek literature. I believe it's inspired.

"...and never died..."

This is not what the Catholic Church teaches.

If you're going to contend, contend with what we actually said. OK? It makes it a whole lot less tedious.

61 posted on 10/20/2014 12:18:26 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Judica me, Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
>"...born and lived without sin..."< Please checkout a relevant item in Biblical Koine Greek (LINK). You may not agree with it, but can't deny it's Biblical and denotes something unique: the title Kecharitomene is used nowhere else in any Biblical or non-Biblical Greek literature. I believe it's inspired.

I checked out the link you provided and you've interpreted/represented the definition of Kecharitomene incorrectly.

The Greek in Luke 1:28 reads literally: καὶ εἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν Χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ Κύριος μετὰ σοῦ....greetings, you favored with grace, the Lord is with you.

The definition for the root word χαριτόω means I favor, bestow freely on.

A derivative of the word is used twice in the NT. Once in Luke and the other in Ephesians 1:6. The verse in Ephesians

Eph 1: 5-6:

5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

In both instances it is God who is doing the bestowing...not us....not Mary. Only God.

Also, from your link you posted:

In Luke 1:28 "Kecharitomene" is nominative or titular, since it follows the greeting "Chaire" ---"Hail [name or title] --- thus the name would automatically be capitalized in English translations.

It is not a title. That is a very, very big twisting of the text by catholicism to elevate Mary to something she is not.

Additionally, Mary is always addressed as Mary. There is no name change as catholics alledge.

Let's deal with the allegation catholics make that Χαῖρε is some sort of title. It is not. It is in the imperative mood.

Wallace(Greek Grammer Beyond the Basics) notes the imperative can be used in a stereotyped manner in which it has suppressed its original injunctive force. The imperative is reduced to an exclamation. This occurs especially in greetings. (Wallace p493)

71 posted on 10/20/2014 3:51:18 PM PDT by ealgeone
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