THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY: Condemned as Heretical by 2 Popes in the 5th and 6th Centuries

christiantruth.com ^ | William Webster

[caww]

...”We’re talking only about a nickname for a statue”....

That’s NOT true.....

....we’ve been talking about idolatry and the use of various statues and relics regarding catholicism. You’re the one who posted scripture reference to Justify your prior post....we’ve been commenting about that and your reference to Jesus as a “doorman”.

Boatbums is writing fully in context with the discussion...Jesus is not a Door’man’ as You’ve depicted Him.

[redleghunter]

Try putting this on a cereal box. I'm sure Elsie has the template and can help... Mystery Babylon

[Springfield Reformer]

Today no reputable theology department of any university dares instruct on such vapid nonsense as literalism or born-again stuff

Well, maybe that's because the "universities" have their priorities bass-ackwards:

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Hmmm. Not born again? You don't get in. Sounds mighty important to me. I'll go with Jesus over the universities on that one, thank you very much.

Peace,

SR

[mlizzy]

That’s NOT true.....



“Every time you smile at someone, it is an action of love, a gift to that person, a beautiful thing.” ―Mother Teresa

God be with you!

Enjoy life............

[caww]

....." Petrine authority is validated by a stellar body of Catholic 'intellectual thought'.....

We pretty much know that the pope makes decisions about issues of morality and theology 'for catholics', ( though some branches of catholicism do not recognize his authority)........

However,.... that authority, given to him by Rome Leadership, came about only after Rome 'partnered' with the Church to create a 'new religion' (counterfeit) to off-set the growth and expansion of real Christianity, which was a threat to Rome...and thereby making it easier for Rome to retain it's power, it's expansion and influence over the people.

The same thing is happening today as the Pope's Ecumenical push partners with World Council of Churches general secretary, Rev. Olav Fykse Tveit, and together align with the International Leadership's agenda for World Governance.

[caww]

Would you respond to the topic instead of playing games

as said....

....we’ve been talking about idolatry and the use of various statues and relics regarding catholicism. You’re the one who posted scripture reference to Justify your prior post....we’ve been commenting about that and your reference to Jesus as a “doorman”.

Boatbums is writing fully in context with the discussion...Jesus is not a Door’man’ as You’ve depicted Him.

[metmom]

I have no qualms with the belief that the Jerusalem above is the mother of us all. However, scripture repeatedly references people having multiple fathers. Does this extend to mothers; can we have multiple mothers?

Perhaps so.

But there's a difference between believing that as a personal opinion, and making something either not addressed by Scripture or not being capable of clearly or easily supported by Scripture into a doctrine or dogma and making it binding on the believer.

Believe it if you want, but don't pass is off on the same level of Truth as God's word.

[metmom]

"She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth." (Rev. 12:2)

bb:Is this talking about Mary?

That's a good question because certain Catholic teach that she gave birth without pain or losing her virginity. Some nonsense about Jesus passing through her body as light.

Any Catholics who believes that about Jesus' birth cannot conclude that the woman in Revelation 12 is Mary because that woman cried out in pain while giving birth.

[metmom]

I do not start off with the assumption it must be in Scripture in order to be true. So I see no reason to find it in Scripture.

We can start off with the belief, and I don't want to say *assumption*, that if it's in Scripture, it's true because it is TRUTH.

On the other hand, being not found in Scripture does not by default mean that it's not true.

However, if it's not found in Scripture, it can't be presumed to be true to the level of Truth as what IS found in Scripture and so must be compared to Scripture and supported by Scripture to give a valid reason for accepting it as truth.

If it can be shown to be contradicted by Scripture, then it can be demonstrated as false.

[metmom]

Today no reputable theology department of any university dares instruct on such vapid nonsense as literalism or born-again stuff.

Just as Satan wants, no doubt. He doesn't want people to accept Scripture as true and Truth, and to have people come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and experiencing the new birth.

You want to call being *born again* "vapid nonsense"? Take it up with Jesus.

That may be in agreement with Catholic thinking and teaching but it is at odds with God.

Jesus speaking here.

John 3:1-8 And there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night, and said to him: Rabbi, we know that thou art come a teacher from God; for no man can do these signs which thou dost, unless God be with him. Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born again? Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit. Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again. The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

[metmom]

My mom is hopefully in heaven, but I like to remember her as a little girl too.

You knew her as a little girl?

How does that work?

[metmom]

Look at who’s the centerpiece in the Catholic home altar......

[mitch5501]

"That's a good question because certain Catholic teach that she gave birth without pain or losing her virginity. Some nonsense about Jesus passing through her body as light. Any Catholics who believes that about Jesus' birth cannot conclude that the woman in Revelation 12 is Mary because that woman cried out in pain while giving birth."

Genesis 3:16 "To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband's power, and he shall have dominion over thee."

[metmom]

Well, you know that and I know that.......

[mlizzy]

Pictures and stories. What would you think?

[metmom]

That’s right.

So you can imagine her as a little girl but can’t remember her because you weren’t there.

[Elsie]

The Lord APPEARED to Abram...

Genesis 12:7 The Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.” So he built an altar there to the Lord, who had appeared to him.

[Elsie]

You actually try LOGIC where only EMOTION seems to work?

[Elsie]

You see, the moderators do allow personal insults here, so long as the poster is a tiny bit clever about it.

Thus; my success here...

---

Matthew 23

 

  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

 

Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

 

---

And St. Paul chimes in...

---