Posted on 09/21/2014 10:09:50 AM PDT by wmfights
“Are you, Jack Hydrazine, the one we should look to as the last word on Jesus Christ?”
Go study with an Orthodox rabbi. You can learn a lot from your deified rabbi if you take the time to study with today’s rabbis.
“Or might it be the 12 apostles, all Jewish, Paul and the original church, all Jewish, might they know a little bit more about it than you?”
Well, for one thing, those Jewish talmidim(rabbinical students) of your rabbi did not go to church. They went to synagogue. SHOCKER! And they weren’t Christian They were Jews. SHOCKER! And they went to synagogue on the Sabbath. SHOCKER! But the non-Jews were allowed to go because they wanted to know Torah, too. SHOCKER! Especially since there wasn’t a New Testament that had been created to replace the Torah. SHOCKER!
Since they were rabbinical students I suspect they knew way more than me, but there is so much to learn. Think of Christianity as a lake and Torah Judaism as the ocean.
I don’t take the New Testament seriously as being the word of God. As a history book, yes. You have to remember that whatever was written down went through the hands of the Catholic Church and altered to fit the Esavist agenda so I consider it suspect. Keep in mind that that Yaakov (Jacob) and Esav (Esau) were twins which makes the church and the synagogue twins.
What qualifies one to be God? How do you define Him?
Jews from day one on Mount Sinai were made to understand that God is non-corporeal and is beyond sex and gender. The only way to know him is to have His soul touch yours.
Just this basic defining of who He is has set so many into anger and with enough anger to mercilessly to try and kill every Jew on the planet since right at Sinai some 3,000 years ago.
“the only one who can open anyone’s spiritual eyes is the Holy Spirit.”
Absolutely!!!!! But your need the Torah to help ground you in your walk with the Holy Spirit. It’s a balance of both.
“...yet the vast majority of Jews rejected Him when he walked the earth and the vast majority have rejected Him for 2,000 years.”
I would say that it was about 50/50 between those who rejected his message of getting Jews to reject Helenism and return to Torah and those who accepted it.
“what do you make of Paul the Apostle?”
Hard to say since the writings about him went through the Church’s hands back in 312AD. If what we read is accurate he was very much a Jewish man on fire for God. Once God straightened him out a bit it he went about bringing the Torah to the Roman citizens who had started to thirst for it starting about 100 years before the Christian’s deified rabbi showed up. He was at the leading edge of this B’nai Noach movement. But then Rome co-opted it and things went south from there.
But then again Rome had over 30,000 gods at the time. To have such an influential, deified rabbi and his students get it pared down to 3 (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) is quite amazing. At one time ancient Egypt had around 30,000 gods, too, and look at the influential Jewish leader and the first messiah who brought Jews out of that cultural mess.
Hmmm, this doesn't sound Orthodox to me; Orthodox rabbis are normally only interested in Jews (no, I'm not going to include celebrity opportunists like Shmuely Boteach), with the reluctant exception for mixed marriage spouses who insist on conversion. Your comments sound more like a Gentile Noachide (bnei Noach) to me.
There’s plenty you can study online, at the book store, and at the library.
I just don't want the readers to mistake you for a Jew and blame Jews in general for your comments. Once they realize you are a Gentile who has rejected faith in the LORD Jesus Christ to try to be a righteous Gentile another way there is no deception, even unintentionally. Full disclosure as it were.
“to come to this thread to poke Christians in the eye by insulting Jesus by writing Your deified, Jewish rabbi believed them. I guess that qualifies him as Satan’s little helper?”
Hokai. I point out very basic Torah truths to you and the others reading this thread.
You express your opinion that those basic Torah truths are Satanic.
Isn’t it true that Jesus (not his real name, but if you want a more accurate English transliterated-equivalent name it would be Joshua; and I’m not joshin’ ya here), is defied by Christians the world over? Yes! Wasn’t his profession being a rabbi? Yes! (John 3:2 who don’t think so.)
So when I use the phrase, “the Christians deified rabbi,” am I being correct? Yes!
Since Jews and your deified rabbi believe in those basic Torah truths (from Moses to present) how should I respond?
Torah truths are Satanic. Jews follow Torah. Therefore, Jews are Satanists including Jesus which makes him Satan’s little helper along with every other Jew because they follow Torah. Is the logic sound? Yes.
Tell me where my logic is incorrect.
What I am saying any Jew worth his salt would say if pressed to say it.
What does any observant Jew say if he is about to die? The Shema.
“Listen, Israel! The Lord is our God; the Lord is One.”
If I took the time to explain on what just this one verse alone really means (based on what the rabbis have been saying over the past 3,000), and I have mentioned it a little already, would make you so angry it’s not even funny. Think of the anger the basics have wrought? All I would hear from you and others is how Satanic it is. Well, when you’ve listened to Esavist (aka Christian) propaganda all your life whaddaya expect?
I’ve studied a bit with the rabbis, but I’m not Jewish, AFAIK. But I do ascribe myself to be B’nai Noach and am of the opinion the rabbis are right. It took a very long time to come to that conclusion.
There is a prophecy given by given by Isaiah about the third Temple.
Isaiah 56:7 “...for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
When all of the nations show up to pray at the third Temple in the future which books do you think will study there?
The New Testament? No.
The Koran? No.
The Book of Mormon? No
The Zoroastrian Avesta collection? No.
The Hindu Vedas? No.
How about the Word of Buddha or the Five Classics of Confuscianism? No and no.
Books on Scientology? Absolutely not.
Only the Tanach (the Bible minus the New Testament) and the books of the Oral Torah will be there.
Why?
Because non-Jews will be moved by the Spirit of God to pursue Torah just like Roman citizens did 100 years before your rabbi showed up on the world stage. That pursuit started again back in the early 1960s just as secular Jews around the world started turning back to Torah.
This movement will continue upward and onward for those who want to grasp the Tree of Life. In the first Temple the Spirit of the Law was followed. In the Second, the letter of it was followed. And now the Third will be built by those who follow a balance of both.
And which God will they pray to in the Third Temple? The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
You’ll never really understand your deified rabbi or what he said or did until you take the time to go back to the original and study it and pray about it.
One God, One Torah, One People to lead humanity to closer to God.
(From the movie, ‘The Highlander’)
“In the end, there can only be one.”
Not even close...When you invent a theology it's pretty easy to take a verse and make things up with it...
The church is never called Israel in the scriptures or the commonwealth of Israel...By this time the church, Christians are called-Christians...NOT the commonwealth of Israel...
Just prior to that salvation was offered only to Jews, the commonwealth of Israel (prior to Peter's revelation)...
Act 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
When a Jew believed on the Lord Jesus Christ he was put into Jesus Christ...Spiritually or religiously he was no longer a Jew or Israel but a Christian...
When a Gentile believed on the Lord Jesus Christ he was put into Jesus Christ as well...
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Gentiles did not become Israel and Israel did not become Gentiles...We are both made one, i.e, Christians...
Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Of course they are worshiping the one true God...They are the only group of people on earth who had their eyes and minds blinded about Jesus Christ by God...
Others who reject Jesus make a personal decision not to...Israel has no option (except for a few)...
But then you may be in that group who's mind has been blinded by the Devil...
2Co 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Can you prove your Catholic Tradition is true??? Bible tells you to prove all things...
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
sa 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
What religion are you? Just curiosity. For fairness' sake, I am a conservative Christian and a Methodist pastor.
I ask because of:
1 Timothy 2:4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.…
Thank you for telling the truth. Please, if you are going to try to teach Judaism, let your audience know up front that you are not a Jew but a Gentile of the Bnei Noach sect or persuasion. That is the right and honorable thing to do so that others do not think it is a Jew writing what you write.
Religion? B’nai Noach
“5 For there is one God,”
He gets that right on the money.
“and one mediator also between God and men,”
Judaism recognizes that there is no heavenly mediator between God and man because God doesn’t need one nor require one. The relationship between a man and God is direct, one-on-one, soul-to-soul. When you start requiring a mediator then people start picking all sorts of mediators for themselves. A good example of this is Catholics who pray to Mary, dead martyrs and saints and beatified popes.
Look at the time when Jews were in the desert and before the sin of the golden calf. The mediator of the Jewish people, if you want to call him that, was Moses. His goal in life was not to be in that position of power and be entrenched in it between Jews and God but to teach Jews that they could have that one-on-one, soul-to-soul relationship just as Moses did. His job was to put himself out of a job as mediator. Here’s a good example of him mediating.
Numbers Chapter 21:
7. The people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you. Pray to the Lord that He remove the snakes from us.” So Moses prayed on behalf of the people.
After the sin of the golden calf there was more distance created between Jews and God. Then Aaron was appointed as mediator and a Mishkan (tabernacle) created to formalize the procedures for climbing up the ladder of holiness so mistakes would not be made. Then later came the First Temple and then the Second.
During your rabbi’s time he did exactly the same thing as Moses. His job was to restore the relationship between his fellow Jew and God by teaching them to get back to both the letter and the Spirit of the Torah. This is the job of all rabbis. He was there to put himself out of the job of being that rabbi, mediator figure. Once that relationship is restored as a whole in the future there won’t be much of a need for rabbis or even police.
If Jesus is God what is the point of being a mediator? Between whom is he mediating?
But you can go back even earlier in Genesis to find Abraham being a mediator in the role of prophet.
Gen. 20:
7. And now, return the man’s wife, because he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and [you will] live; but if you do not return [her], know that you will surely die, you and all that is yours.”
17. And Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelech and his wife and his handmaids, and they gave birth.
He also interceded on behalf of those in Sodom and Gomorrah to save them from the fire that descended from the sky and burned those cities to the ground. (Gen 18:23-32)
His son Isaac learned to intercede from his father.
Gen 25:
21. And Isaac prayed to the Lord opposite his wife because she was barren, and the Lord accepted his prayer, and Rebecca his wife conceived.
But keep in mind that Jewish priests, prophets, judges and kings have acted as mediators. Lots of references there if I had time to type them all.
The pattern we see here is compassionate, caring, more and less educated human beings acting as mediators through prayer for others. Every human being is capable of doing such and your rabbi’s job during his time here on Earth was to teach this among many other things.
OK, so you are not some variety of Christian.
Got it. That explains your statement.
Jesus being the mediator for believers makes sense if, as we believe, God is Trinity.
In Judaism there is no Trinity. There is only one God and one only. He’s indivisible and non-corporeal and infinite which means he can’t be put into a box.
Is your group “Jewish” Judaism or a form of gentile “Judaism”?
But Torah became flesh and dwelt among us..
The Messiah of Israel is different than what greco roman latin chuches observes and teaches.
The new testament is the telling of His life while He tabernacled with us..
The new testament confirms Torah... what christendom has done with the greco roman latin mother church as the leader, is reduce Torah to ‘old’..
If believers rejected things like december 25, good friday and easter sunday a greco roman latin counterfeits, then Torah, Tanakh and the New Testament are in agreement..
And if a believer does it honestly, it means that the greco roman latin mother church has had way too much influence on their work and worship life..
In a couple days, the new testament reports the birth of the Messiah. (Revelation 12)
It will be a regular old work day in the world.. in Torah and Tanakh, it is an appointed time for worship.
Revelation 12 details a vision in the sky that points to the First day of the 6th month of His calendar when the sun clothed her and the moon was under her feet.
Jews celebrate it as the first day of the 7th month.... wonder if they are off by a month when they celebrate their feasts or the ‘age’ has changed.
Passover occurs today when the sun is in Pisces, not in Aries as it was for Moses and how it was showed in history . so instead of the Ram/Lamb which is represented by Aries, it is the two fish of Pisces.,, to be fair, it was observed around the equinox as Aries used to be the sign in the sky that held that spring equinox.
Pisces isn’t a lamb/ram— it is two fish..
People who have read the New Testament understands there is a reference to the ‘fishers’ of men and the feeding of the multitude.
If Pisces is the head of the year, the 7th month is not Libra but Virgo, the virgin.
People who have read the New Testament also understand the Virgin Bride..
If Jews celebrate their Passover in Pisces, they observe Yom Kippur when the sun is in Virgo and not Libra ( which is the the scales in the sky- certainly an ordained constellation for the day of atonement)
Israel today observes their feasts in constellations that were not the case for Moses. They may not have moved, but the earth has and it has affected the stars that are seen at certain times in our sky..
They celebrate them under the two fish and the virgin.. a picture of evangelism and the virgin bride, His church.. that is a work of YHWH alone.
If they had so much reverence for Torah and Tanakh, they wouldn’t have a pope appointed sabbath day and suspension and postponement rules for
for when that day conflicted with His feasts..
If they observed as it was for Moses with the sun, moon and stars aligned, they may see the Messiah hit very important days in the appointed times that cannot be fulfilled with a calendar a month off..
Maybe jews and christians are all under a delusion that their worship is not vain and it isn’t the Word that has caused it- It is traditions..
Judaism has always not had a trinity. The pagans on the other hand...
It was the angels talking to God.
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