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To: daniel1212
Catharism did apparently wrongly hold that the good god was the God of the New Testament and the creator of the spiritual realm, as opposed to the bad god, whom many Cathars identified as Satan, creator of the physical world of the Old Testament. athars thought human spirits were the genderless spirits of angels trapped within the physical creation of Satan, cursed to be reincarnated until the Cathar faithful achieved salvation through a ritual called the consolamentum

Well, according to the Catholic Church, Protestants are just as damned as Cathars. And according to Protestants, Catholics are just as damned as Cathars. Damned is damned. Interestingly, so many "Christians" choose to believe damnation versus salvation is a matter of if someone got some aspect of theology wrong, rather than what they got right. Which is pretty amazing, since Jesus put so much emphasis on forgiveness, and focusing on the good in people rather than the bad,

Its a shame that Cathar documents vanished with them. It would have been very interesting to trace their history more precisely, to find out exactly where they got their ideas. Sometimes I think erasing that was one of the prime purposes behind the thoroughness of their extermination.

27 posted on 09/20/2014 8:29:48 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; ...
Interestingly, so many "Christians" choose to believe damnation versus salvation is a matter of if someone got some aspect of theology wrong, rather than what they got right. Which is pretty amazing, since Jesus put so much emphasis on forgiveness, and focusing on the good in people rather than the bad,

That is an exceedingly superficial analysis, as the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures spends much press on that aspect of theology which you marginalize.

On one side you have a system which fosters faith/dependance upon itself, its preeminence and power, its merits and morality, and one's own merit, for salvation. Beginning with teaching that sprinkling makes one good enough to enter Heaven, and thus usually ending with becoming good to enter Heaven (and atone for sins) via suffering torments in "purgatory, " commencing at death.

Out of which the church can bail you out of earth thru her "indulgences," while complete cooperation with her sacramental system enables one to be good enough and atone for sins to enter Heaven non-stop.

And which cooperation includes consuming human flesh and blood in order to obtain spiritual life, dispensed by clergy distinctively titled "priests" since they instrumentally change bead and wine into this flesh and blood and offer it as an expiation for sins. And also means praying to departed souls, esp. a "queen of Heaven," who have Divine powers to hear virtually infinite amounts of mental prayer from earth addressed to them in Heaven. Among others things that are absolutely not seen in Scripture.

On that other hand is a faith that holds that God draws souls and opens their heart and grants repentant faith, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32; Acts 11:18; 16:14; Eph. 2:8,9) so that the redeemed come to God as souls damned for their works - not saved because of them - and destitute of any means or merit whereby they may escape their just and eternal punishment in Hell Fire and gain eternal life with God.

And thus with contrite heart cast their whole-hearted repentant faith upon the mercy of God in Christ, trusting the risen Divine Lord Jesus to save them by His sinless shed blood.

And whose faith is thus counted as righteousness, (Rm. 3:9 - 5:1; Ps. 34:18) but it is a faith that will follow Him, with such works justifying one as being a believer, (Heb. 6:9; Ja. 2:18) and fit to be rewarded under God's grace, who rewards God-given faith (Heb. 10:35) in recognition of what it effects.

Thus the postmortem place or condition of all true believers y describes is with the Lord. (Luke 23:43; Acts 7:59; 1Cor. 15:52; 2 Cor 5:8; 1 Th 4:17; 1Jn. 3:2), in whose presence there is fulness of joy (Ps. 16:11). To God be the glory.

The former system fosters perfunctory professions or cultic devotion to a particular church, supposing they were born of God as an infant (usually), and thus are never called to come to Lord Jesus as a contrite damned + destitute sinner, and personally trust Him to save them as such, but trust that the balance of their goodness and the power of their church will eventually gain them entrance to Heaven.

And thus as their church uses the sword of men to persecutes and slay those of the latter faith, or others, or when (having lost said sword) it becomes effectively liberal, then the majority of her adherents do also.

The latter fosters a personal relationship with the Lord of the Bible, and Scripture as being the supreme authority as being the assured word of God, and which transcends outward "tribalism," so that the soul is to leave liberal churches when they critically depart from true faith, and follow the Lord Jesus in any case. Thus evangelicals are far more unified in basic conservative beliefs than Catholics.

30 posted on 09/21/2014 6:50:39 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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