Posted on 09/13/2014 10:57:00 AM PDT by Salvation
It’s pretty obvious you have no intention to have a serious debate about the Real Presence. You don’t practice it, never have and you have no interest in knowing why Christians have been doing it for 2,000 years. That’s my last word on the subject.
Thanks for the help.
“This involves the Bible, not heresy.”
What is “heresy” if not a wresting of Scripture to your own destruction?
You and your fellow wresters never have learned this lesson from Peter. A person who refuses the free gift of eternal life through believing on Christ as their ONCE FOR ALL sacrifice will misread and distort all Scripture.
54Whoever eats* my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.b 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” 59These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
The Words of Eternal Life.* 60Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?” 61Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you? 62What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?* 63It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh* is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.c
I knew what you meant, it is shame that others want to raise issues instead of trying to understand.
Couldn’t answer the question? Why won’t Catholics answer that question?
It would help you if you were able to fully understand what God says in the Bible and listen to the answers provided.
if you believe in a supreme being there are three choices: Pagan, Jewish, or Christian. If you believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, you are either Jewish or Christian. If you reject Jesus as the Messiah and the authority of the of the New Testament than you are a Christian. If you are a Christian there are three choices: prot, Protestant, or Catholic. If you are capable of intelligent discussion, are able to use unbiased secular sources, and are not a virulent anti-Catholic bigot, you are either protestant or Catholic. If you accept the legitimate teaching authority of Sacred Tradition, the Magisterium and Sacred scripture, all on EQUAL footing than you are Catholic.
“The Catholic church does not own Scripture and is not responsible for its existence. “
Truth. This just came to mind:
“...for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.”
There is something of the flavor of that in what these people and their Popes proclaim, who have a form of religion but deny its power.
You are wrong. Please read it again.
???
Yeah let me know how that theory works out for you.
I happily join metmom in being a “one trick pony” if that means we only know and preach “Jesus Christ and Him crucified”.
Narses, there are a thousand ways to miss the bullseye; only one way of hitting it. Please, for your sake, become a “one trick pony” before it is too late and you are confirmed forever in fractal wrongness.
So no, you don’t go to heaven, not because of the sin, but because you weren’t saved in the first place.
Nobody who is saved would have the attitude that salvation is fire insurance, like those who are not born again like to portray.
And how do I know that people who think like that are not born again? Because nobody born again would have such a flippant attitude towards sin and salvation.
Born again believers are new creatures in Christ, have died to the flesh and have the Holy Spirit living in them.
It doesn’t mean they’re perfect, nor does it mean they will never sin, but when God puts His Holy Spirit in you, your thinking WILL change and God will not allow you to continue in a habitual lifestyle of sin.
People who are not saved simply do not understand how the saved view salvation and sin.
Seriously!
When was Jimmy Swaggert saved, before, after, or while he was cheating on his wife? How about Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Was it before, after, or while they were swindling all those people?
Oral Roberts claimed the devil would strike him dead if he didn't raise 6 million for ORU. If he was really saved; A) the devil would have no power over him, and B) wouldn't he want to go be with God?
Was Peter Popoff saved before, after, or while he was doing all those fake healings?
Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson both are strong supporters of abortion rights, are they saved?
Would this be the same law that made it a sin for the apostles to pick wheat on the Sabbath and Jesus to heal on the Sabbath?
OK, let's do that. Catholics say it's the flesh that gives them life.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Jesus is clearly explaining that He was not talking about the physical flesh. Nor was He physical bread when He said He was the bread of life.
You haven't answered my question. Was Jesus drinking His own blood at the last supper in direct disobedience to Jewish law?
Excellent points.
The fatal flaw in any works scheme is found in the very book that works advocates cherish/quote (selectively) most—James. To wit:
“For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.”
What is the way that seems right to a man but ends in death? WORKS!
Check it out in Scripture:
“What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
The REAL work of God is contained in that prophecy, and verbalized clearly by Jesus: “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
I love my Good Shepherd and all of his sheep!
Read it in context.
To metmom; You comment: No denomination is the *one true church*.
I disagree and Jesus stated: “every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand” ( Matthew 12:25 ).
That the Church which Christ instituted for man’s salvation must be one in the strict sense of the term just explained, is already evident from its very nature and purpose; truth is one, Christ revealed the truth and gave it to His Church, and men are to be saved by knowing and following the truth. But the essential unity of the true Christian Church is also explicitly and repeatedly declared throughout the New Testament :
Speaking of His Church, the Saviour called it a kingdom, the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of God ( Matthew 13:24, 31, 33 ; Luke 13:18 ; John 18:36 );
He compared it to a city the keys of which were entrusted to the Apostles ( Matthew 5:14 ; 16:19 ),
to a sheepfold to which all His sheep must come and be united under one shepherd ( John 10:7-17 );
to a vine and its branches,
to a house built upon a rock against which not even the powers of hell should ever prevail ( Matthew 16:18 ).
Moreover, the Saviour, just before He suffered, prayed for His disciples, for those who were afterwards to believe in Him — for His Church — that they might be and remain one as He and the Father are one ( John 17:20-23 ); and
He had already warned them that “every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand” ( Matthew 12:25 ).
These words of Christ are expressive of the closest unity.
St. Paul likewise insists on the unity of the Church.
I understand the need for Catholics to categorize in order to assign beliefs and their internal fear of those they can't, but true followers of Christ existed long before there was a Catholic Church and there will be long after the Catholic Church is history.
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