Posted on 09/12/2014 6:28:11 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson
This screed is like censoring criticism of liberalism by only focusing on one aspect of its deviancy and relegating that to a fringe element. In reality the heresy that Jesus was married was not simply held by black sheep/nuts/fringe “representatives,” but by early Mormons leaders, and consistent with its idea that God was/is married and a polygamist .
From Utah Lighthouse™ Ministry , which well substantiates its work:
Brigham Young taught that Adam was a polygamist: "When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives with him" (vol. 1, p. 50).
Some of the Mormon people believed "that Joseph Smith the Prophet taught that Adam had two wives" (vol. 26, p. 115).
Some of the leading authorities of the church went so far as to proclaim that both the Father and the Son were polygamists. Jedediah M. Grant, second counselor to Brigham Young, made these comments:
Celsus was a heathen philosopher; and what does he say upon the subject of Christ and his Apostles.... He says, "The grand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted Jesus Christ, was, because he had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of others that followed him." ...
The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based on polygamy.... A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus, and his followers. We might almost think they were "Mormons" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp. 345-46).
Apostle Orson Hyde asserted:
It will be borne in mind that once on a time, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; ... no less a person than Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the least of it.
I will venture to say that if Jesus Christ were now to pass through the most pious countries in Christendom with a train of women, such as used to follow him, ... he would be mobbed, tarred, and feathered, and rode not on an ass, but on a rail....
At this doctrine the long-faced hypocrite and the sanctimonious bigot will probably cry, blasphemy! ... Object not, therefore, too strongly against the marriage of Christ ... (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, pp. 259-60).
I discover that some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children.
All that I have to say in reply to that charge is this—they worship a Savior that is too pure and holy to fulfill the commands of his Father. I worship one that is just pure and holy enough "to fulfill all righteousness;" not only the righteous law of baptism, but the still more righteous and important law "to multiply and replenish the earth" (vol. 2, p. 210).
When the "Gentiles" stated that polygamy was one of the "relics of barbarism," Brigham Young replied: "Yes, one of the relics of Adam, of Enoch, of Noah, of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob, of Moses, David, Solomon, the Prophets, of Jesus, and his Apostles" (vol. 11, p. 328).
On another occasion Young said: "The Scripture says that He, the LORD, came walking in the Temple, with His train; I do not know who they were, unless His wives and children ..." (vol. 13, p. 309).
Orson Pratt commented:
... it will be seen that the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion, was a polygamist, ... the Messiah chose to ... by marrying many honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that he approbated the plurality of wives under the Christian dispensation....
We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His first Born, and another being upon the earth by whom He begat the tabernacle of Jesus, as his only begotten in this world. We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings' daughters and many honorable wives were to be married. We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time; ... it would be so shocking to the modesty of the very pious ladies of Christendom to see Abraham and his wives, Jacob and his wives, Jesus and his honorable wives, all eating occasionally at the same table, ... If you do not want your morals corrupted, and your delicate ears shocked and your pious modesty put to the blush by the society of polygamists and their wives, do not venture near the New Earth; for polygamists will be honored there, and will be among the chief rulers in that Kingdom (The Seer, p. 172).
If none but Gods will be permitted to multiply immortal children, it follows that each God must have one or more wives (p. 158).
It is interesting to note that some members of the Mormon church still maintain that God and Christ are polygamists. John J. Stewart, writing in 1961, explained:
Now, briefly, the reason that the Lord, through the Prophet Joseph, introduced the doctrine of plural marriage, and the reason that the Church ... has never and will never relinquish the doctrine of plural marriage, is simply this: The major purpose of the Church is to help man attain the great eternal destiny suggested in that couplet ...plural marriage is the patriarchal order of marriage lived by God and others who reign in the Celestial Kingdom. As well might the Church relinquish its claim to the Priesthood as the doctrine of plural marriage (Brigham Young and His Wives, p. 41).
Plural marriage was a common practice among God's chosen people.... Mary, Martha, Mary Magdalene and many other women were beloved of Jesus. For a person to say that he believes the Bible but does not believe the doctrine of plural marriage is something akin to saying that he accepts the Constitution but not the Bill of Rights (p. 26).
Writing in 1966, John J. Stewart continued to maintain that plural marriage "is the patriarchal order of marriage lived by God and others who reign in the Celestial Kingdom ..." (Joseph Smith the Mormon Prophet, p. 69).
LDS Apostle Orson Hyde wrote, "Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana and Galilee" (J. of D., Vol. II, p. 82). And LDS Apostle Orson Pratt said, "If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women (Mary, Martha and Mary Magdalene) were His wives" (The Seer, p. 159).
Pratt again said, "We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of His Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings' daughters and many honorable wives were to be married" (Ibid., p. 172).
The tenth LDS Prophet, Joseph Fielding Smith, was asked if Jesus was married. His answer was, "Yes! But do not preach it! The Lord advised us not to cast pearls before swine!" (from a letter dated March 17, 1963). - http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/mclaims2.htm
....We have a packet of photos from current LDS books on God being married, having sex with Mary, etc. See Godhead and Virgin Birth Photos.
A helpful book would be Where Does It Say That? This contains about a hundred photos from early LDS books showing some of their crazy teachings, like Jesus being married, etc.
Another good book is For Any Latter-day Saint: One Investigator's Unanswered Questions.]
Meanwhile, Mormonism is overall radically contrary to NT Christian faith.
Would you believe a religion from a man that
1. Claims to have had visitations by God the Father and Jesus Christ His Son, the angel “Moroni,” John the Baptist, the apostles Peter, James and John, plus the Old Testament prophets Moses, Elias and Elijah? (Elias in the New Testament is simply the Greek rendering of Elijah, a fact Joseph Smith was ignorant of).
“Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken? Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD” (Ezek. 13:7, 8).
2. Claimed that the angel “Moroni” (who is nowhere found in the Bible) told him every single church, without exception, and their essential beliefs (which Mormons build upon) were corrupt? (in which case the gates of Hell did prevail against His church, that of born again believers: Mt. 16:18; cf. 1Cor. 12:13).
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Gal. 6:8).
3. Wrote the Book of Mormon by hiding an occultic “seer stone” in his hat and dictating words?
“There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD” (Dt. 18:10-12)
4. Writes in the same book a fantastic and detailed tale of an immigration of Hebrews to South America, which supposedly formed a vast society. Later, after a tremendous civil war, one tribe of this fictitious people is said to have migrated to N. America, even to New York. And that Jesus Christ appeared to these Indians after His resurrection in Israel.
For all of which people and events (unlike the Bible) there is no real archaeological evidence (not even for their weapons). In addition, DNA and other scientific evidence actually refutes it, while the Bible makes it clear nothing of this sort took place..
According to thee. So your specious criteria is indeed simply not being in formal submission to the pope? And how is this consistent with defining Catholic as adhering to Catholic distinctives such as papal infallibility, Marian sinlessness and perpetual virginity and bodily assumption, the nature of the Eucharistic, etc.?
But if one cannot deny these and be Catholic, then how can one deny the apostle's creed, and Scripture as being the supreme authority as literally being the Word of God, and salvation by grace thru faith, and other Prot distinctives of the Reformation, and be Protestant? Or do you not care about being consistent in order to take pot shots?
In any case, how does Mormonism attack those evangelicals whom you oppose here who hold to the above, and actually conform more to Catholicism in core Truths than Mormonism?
How do you think you all appear to the only real Christians (Catholics) with your bizarre denials of basic Catholic doctrines.
Which is based upon what? What is the basis for your assurance of truth?
Is your argument is that an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium is essential for determination and assurance of Truth (including writings and men being of God) and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and preservation of faith, and authority. (Jn. 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:13; Mt. 16:18; Lk. 10:16)
And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that Rome is that assuredly infallible magisterium. Thus those who dissent from the latter are in rebellion to God?
Or is your basis for determination of Truth that of the weight of evidence, of Scriptural substantiation in word and in power, like an evangelical's must be?
Heresy is heresy.
That itself is no more true than that "sin is sin," as while it makes all sinners, there are varying degrees and penalties, but only by ignoring such can you make Mormons as Prots and Herod as Peter.
Thanks for the extra sources. Pax. :)
“Post of the thread.”
:-)
The Catholic Church does not classify Mormons and Christians. They’re closer to being Protestants than Catholics, but they are neither.
not yet, but He will be when we get there
Can this be corroborated with any actual evidence?
Ugh!
Just checking.
“For Christians there are only two choices, Catholic or protestant. If you are not fully in communion with the Catholic Church and profess a belief in Jesus you are protestant.”
I understand this from Rome’s view. Fortunately, God has no grandchildren, only first generation children that are born through faith in His gracious gift. As such, we identify with Him, not Rome and not with those involved in the historic split from Rome. We are simply Christians. Related to Him now. While you may think of yourself as catholic. I don’t know of anyone at my church who would identify themselves as “protestant.”
“Many protestants and prots refuse to acknowledge the roots of Mormonism in protestant ism due to “bizarre” beliefs.”
I readily acknowledge that horndog Smith was influenced by protestant Christians. Clearly, his life showed something quite different than the life of Christ within. Apparently, he was poorly catechized.
But this cuts both ways, since by your line of thinking you will be in the position of acknowledging that every single offshoot of the catholic church since 300 bc is “catholic.” If you do not, it doesn’t serve any purpose to call mormons protestant, once they leave.
“How do you think you all appear to the only real Christians (Catholics) with your bizarre denials of basic Catholic doctrines.”
Real Christians are those who have entrusted themselves to the gracious gift of God in Christ - regardless of denomination. I don’t give any think time to how my relationship as a son of God and joint heir with Christ appears to those who are catholic. Why would I? I want to please God, not man.
1 Thessalonians 2:4 (DARBY)
“but even as we have been approved of God to have the glad tidings entrusted to us, so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, who proves our hearts.”
Paul never argues that approval comes from anywhere but God. What good news!
best.
Catholic Answers says half of all Mormon converts are Catholics.
CATHOLIC ANSWERS:
“FACT: Each year, the Mormon church baptizes 300,000 converts. (That’s 800 a day—or another million every three years.) Half are former Catholics.
The time to act is now—or we risk losing many Catholics to the Mormon faith in the decade ahead.”
So Mormons are not Christians, and are not Protestant Christians, but for the purposes of your dishonest blog and for the purposes of you labeling them as Jim Robinsons fellow Protestant Christians, you will continue to play your game.
Anyone remotely familiar with what the Mormon Church teaches and historically what Protestants believe, COULD NOT CONFUSE THE TWO.
Mormonism is a bizarre cultish fantasy, started by a man named Joseph Smith with the two fold purpose to make money and score with women ( mostly other mens wives )
The beliefs of Mormons DENY ALL HISTORICAL CHRISTIAN BELIEFS, including the Trinity and salvation by grace.
Protestants, those that broke from the Catholic Church in the 16th century, for the most part accept many historical Christian doctrines ( deity of Jesus Christ, the Trinity, salvation by grace, etc ), but many denied other historical Christian doctrines such as baptismal regeneration, the Real Presence in the Eucharist, apostolic succession, etc.
Many other religious movements have sprung up after the Reformation and justify their existence on the Protestant belief that there is not one universal visible Church so anyone is free to start their own “church” and away we go...
I hold no brief for Protestantism, as I think it goes against the peace and unity of the Christian Church as taught in John 17 and 1 Corinthians 1.
But Mormons teach that both the Catholic Church and Protestants are the whore of Babylon described in Revelation 17.......THEY ARE NOT PROTESTANT AND THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN.
Okay, thanks.
Mexico: 80% Catholic (just 43% of which identify as practicing)
10% Protestant
~10% Agnostic/Atheist
http://www3.inegi.org.mx/sistemas/TabuladosBasicos/Default.aspx?c=27302&s=est
Belize: 40% Catholic
32% Protestant
10% Other
15.5% Atheist
http://www.belize.com/belize-demographics -- The official state census site is down ATM.
Costa Rica: 70.5% Catholic
14% Protestant
11% Atheist
2% Buddhist (?) http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2008/108520.htm
El Salvador: 47% Catholic
33% Protestant
17$ Atheist
3% other
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/religiousfreedom/index.htm#wrapper
Guatemala: 50-60% Catholic
30-40% Protestant
5% Syriac
3% Orthodox
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2006/71462.htm
Honduras: 47% Catholic 17% Other
Annuario Pontificio, 2009.
Nicaragua: No recent information.
Panama: 75-85% Catholic
15-25% Protestant
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2007/90262.htm
“THEY ARE NOT PROTESTANT AND THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN”
I’m not denying the truth of that statement. :-)
mormonS ARE NOT Protestants.
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