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To: af_vet_1981; Iscool; redleghunter; CynicalBear; roamer_1; wmfights

my dear friend, why Cardinal Koch thinks its a mystery how the Jews can be saved without explicitly confessing Christ is rather strange to me. all the dear Cardinal need do is read what Jesus Himself said on the matter in John 8:22-24

then he said to the Jews, will he kill himself since he says “where I am going you can’t come?”. He said to them, I am from above, you are of this world. I am not of this world. I TOLD YOU THAT YOU WOULD DIE IN YOUR FOR YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS UNLESS YOU BELIEVE THAT I AM HE”

so here we have a “cardinal” who assures us Jews are saved even if they do not explicitly believe in Jesus, but it’s a mystery to him BECAUSE HE HAS NO BASIS FOR THIS BELIEF other than to please man rather than God.

Jesus Christ declared just the opposite. Please note he was speaking to Jews and said they would die in their sin unless they believed he is the Messiah.

so much for all “Israel” being saved, huh?

as for showing the Jews mercy, you don’t show Jews, Hindus, atheists or anyone else outside of Christ “mercy” by lying to them.
you show them mercy by declaring they are sinners, in rebellion against God and the only way for their souls to be saved is to repent, believe the Faith and be baptized into Christ. anything else is from the devil.

an analogy about “mercy”. if you have a friend that is 5’6” and weighs 600 lbs and wants to eat 12 pizzas a day, 10 gallons of ice cream and 20 hamburgers, who is the friend who shows “mercy” to this individual -
1. the one who says go ahead, eat all you want, enjoy yourself ( which is what the friend wants to hear )
2. the one who says no, you are killing yourself and you need to go on a diet and exercise program? ( what he needs to hear )
who is showing mercy?


84 posted on 08/31/2014 6:00:42 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; Iscool; redleghunter; CynicalBear; roamer_1; wmfights
I think Cardinal Koch is a legitimate spokesman for the Catholic Church and impugning his character or motives is beneath an obedient Catholic.

If one believes Jesus is the Messiah (and he is), one should concede that Isaiah 53 prophesied of him. If one accepts this premise one should admit that Jesus did not speak with guile nor deceive the people of Israel. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Jesus did not lie. He did not deceive. Historically the Gentiles took over the churches and all our history is replete with wars of a religious nature. The Jews were persecuted and slaughtered, for being Jews. So much evil has been done in Jesus' name; some Gentiles who professed to be Christians have poisoned the well so to speak. Not only that, we have the divine temporary blinding of Israel so that Israel cannot recognize Messiah. I completely trust God in this matter and make supplication to the Father in the name of the LORD Jesus Christ in full communion with Mary, mother of our Lord, who is God with us, as well as the Jewish Apostles (who love their brethren) and all the saints who have pleased God, for Israel, to show them mercy, for it is in the same mercy that we shall be saved. Blessed John Paul II and Cardinal Koch correctly perceive that the Jews are our elder brethren. Every Jewish baby is another branch from the same tree. For the promise is unto you, and to your children

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

91 posted on 08/31/2014 6:24:28 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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