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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; redleghunter; daniel1212; editor-surveyor; boatbums; CynicalBear
the question - is the “holy flock” national Israel as claimed in this post? not according to Jesus in John 10:16

It seems you assume what is there (in National Israel as it exists today) is a finished work - Methinks thou doest assume too much... Even as Christianity assumes it is already the bride of Messiah, not understanding betrothal... Legally considered true, but technically, still in the works.

“and I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them in also, and they will heed my voice. SO THERE WILL BE ONE FLOCK, ONE SHEPHERD”.”

Again, assumes this too is a finished product. If it were finished, there would be but one flock right here right now, in this physical realm. While that is certainly predicted, and certainly WILL happen... No one can suggest it is true now. And it would be instructive to ponder the parable of the bridesmaids...

Jesus says what will determine if someone is in the one, holy flock is not Hebrew DNA, but rather do they heed His voice.

That isn't precisely true. First of all, 'Hebrew DNA' would have to be defined: The first influx of Gentiles happened in the exodus, and has been ongoing ever since. Even the bloodline - Joseph's descendants are half-breeds Half of Judah are half-breeds. Secondly, there were twelve tribes at the foot of Sinai - there are now extant and known, three. There is a massive shell game going on that we cannot even begin to understand - the only real evidence of Jewish or Hebrew ancestry comes from groups where the Cohenim are present.

And lastly, there are manifold evidences in the Prophets - Real, and lasting promises, which are not capable of being assigned to or through Messiah. Do not forget that He is their Messiah first and foremost. Without those promises being realized, there is neither a promise to us (If He doesn't keep his Word, then His promise has no value). Thankfully, I believe that YHWH will keep every_single_one of his promises, and that belief is what makes His promises to me so very true that I can bank upon them with every confidence.

Your view is myopic - it is about saving the Sons of Adam. That is what it has always been about. Do not boast against the branches.

those “dwelling in the cities” in the country called Israel, are they heeding the voice of Jesus? have they been cleansed of their iniquities?

Of course not - Neither is the church a 'spotless bride'. Works in progress. And Israel coming back to the land in unbelief is prophetically accurate - go seek it out. They await His revealing in a time of great trouble, when they will look upon Him whom they have pierced, and wherein He will save them out of their trouble, going before them in battle as in days of old.

and yes, when we heed the voice of the one shepherd, we are cleansed of our iniquities and become residents of the New Jerusalem, the true holy and beloved city.

You forget, Jerusalem is coming DOWN HERE.

266 posted on 09/09/2014 1:21:37 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

unfortunately, what we have in assuming national Israel as an “unfinished work” is trying to justify pre conceived notions to the Scriptures, rather than letting the Scriptures reveal truth.

for example, Ezekiel 36:33 says “on THE DAY I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited.”
notice it says it will happen the same day. if this verse were talking about national Israel and 1948, we would see the Jews in Israel on that day proclaiming faith in Jesus and being baptized into his body. we see nothing of the sort, in fact just the opposite. the people living in the country called Israel are quite opposed to Jesus Christ and His Church.
further if national Israel was in view in Ezekiel, 39:28 states “I will leave none of them remaining among the nations anymore”, meaning every Jew in the world would be in Israel. obviously this hasn’t happened at all.

my view isn’t myopic, it lets the NT shed light on the OT and it lets the Bible tell us who “Israel” is and not what non-Christian thinks it is.


267 posted on 09/10/2014 4:56:40 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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