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To: daniel1212; redleghunter; wmfights; boatbums; CynicalBear; metmom

Certainly. Rather than Israel only referring to the church, the Israel of God, it also refers to unconverted Jews collectively both before the church and after Pentecost, and which are promised a future collective repentance


now everyone can see why it has been like pulling teeth for any dispensationalist to define “Israel”
the answer is RIDICULOUS.

all one need do is read that definition again and then put that definition into:

Romans 9:6 “ for not all who are descended from Israel belong to ISRAEL”.
well, if Israel is collectively all the unconverted Jews before the Church and after Pentecost, than Paul is wrong and all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.

next let’s stick that definition into Romans 11:26 “ and so all Israel will be saved”
Ok, so all the unconverted Jews, which comprise Israel will now be saved.

but then further on in the answer Joan Rivers is not called Israel, but as far as we know, she was an unconverted Jew who lived after Pentecost, which according to the definition given would make her “Israel”.

I hope everyone can see why no one believed this before the 19th century.


261 posted on 09/08/2014 6:35:45 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; redleghunter; wmfights; boatbums; CynicalBear; metmom
Romans 9:6 “ for not all who are descended from Israel belong to ISRAEL”. well, if Israel is collectively all the unconverted Jews before the Church and after Pentecost, than Paul is wrong and all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.

You continue to display why so many RCs are incapable of understanding Scripture when it refutes them, or admitting it, as rather than denying that "Israel" can refer to all the unconverted Jews as well as the church, Paul is showing that it can.

Again:

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. (Romans 9:31)

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (Romans 10:1)

But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. (Romans 10:21)

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; (Romans 9:3-4)

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (Romans 11:7)

Are you still blind to the fact that these are unconverted Jews. but called Israel?

Ok, so all the unconverted Jews, which comprise Israel will now be saved.

What lunacy, or desperate denial, as you have been told tol more than once this only refers to Jews who convert.

Meanwhile you continue to refuse to admit that your denial that the Lord's coming awaits his recognition by all Israel, for a hardening has come upon part of Israel in their unbelief toward Jesus, and that this full inclusion of the Jews will be in the wake of the full number of the Gentiles being saved, is a denial of your own CCC. (674) .

Until you admit this then you have relegated yourself to the "not fit to be responded to list." and will not take up more of my time. Sometimes i think the job of some RCs is to do just that, though it often exposes their sophistry.

264 posted on 09/08/2014 9:42:06 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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