Posted on 07/26/2014 4:41:46 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
I am coming up on my first year as an ordained minister in a continuing Anglican church, and I have noticed that participating on political forums (even when the topic is religious) I find that my opinions and postings more often than not generate more hatred than anything else. Among the things I often hear are that the laity are the real priests and that I am a Pharisee, that my vocation disqualifies me from offering an opinion on anything Christian because I am too narrow minded, and (my personal favorite) because I look too Catholic I must be a child molester.
Are these people really Christians?
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. “
Frankly, your claim is ridiculous - on multiple levels. I’ll set those aside.
The verse you posted says nothing about “apostolic succession.”
This concept is not found in Scripture. The passage about the replacement for Judas is the only place in Scripture where a pattern for choosing a replacement is found. No one alive today meets that criteria.
“Aren’t you aware that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ on the Apostles so they could carry on his work?”
Respectfully, are you aware no one else believes this?
NEWS FLASH: This is the most real place in the universe. People will say the things here that are really in their heart. They will say the most awful disgusting things precisely because of the anonymity. Things that they would never say or have the courage to say to someone face have free rein here.
I think the Youtube poster made up the title. I toned it down for you sensitive folks.
>>Personally I believe that any one that has the ability to get an M. Div. is worthy of my respect even if he is not a member of my faith. On the other hand the guys that rent a store front and a couple hundred folding chairs for “Bob’s House O’ god”, not so much.
With all other things being equal, I agree. But add on 20 years to that M.Div and many pastors become lazy and jaded. They are simply tired of serving. Many, especially in the UMC where pastors are “sent” by the Bishop, think that they have failed in their career because they are serving a congregation of less than 200. But, this is their career and their retirement is tied up in that denomination. To quit at age 50 with no other degree and little practical experience in the world of business just isn’t practical.
So, they serve and count the years to retirement with more of a civil servant attitude than that of an actual servant.
Bob can quit whenever he wants and go back to selling shoes or working in the factory.
Wow!! What a film. The ex Catholic priest obviously had studied and knew what he was talking about. Every person who considers themselves a Christian should watch that video. Thank you for posting that.
You have been lied to, or maybe you are ....which I hope not.
Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
They are upset about it already.
>>NEWS FLASH: This is the most real place in the universe. People will say the things here that are really in their heart. They will say the most awful disgusting things precisely because of the anonymity. Things that they would never say or have the courage to say to someone face have free rein here.
Yeah, news like MSNBC is news.
I’m not saying that the vitriol and anger isn’t real on the internet. I’m saying that it’s the people who aren’t authentic.
Fixed it for you.
Wondering why you felt the need to call in the prot posse?
As was expected from the FRoman Catholics here. Most of them deny the inquisition even happened. I always keep in mind that it’s not they who we are to reach here. It’s the lurkers who are honestly seeking truth.
You are so very welcome. I figured there is no reason to hide the truth. So many were murdered by the Catholics that I couldn't help but post it.
Beat me to it, thanks.
So, good evening! (at least it’s evening where I am). I was your first reply, and I can see that this thread has devolved in the manner in which I expected. My only answer is to keep praying for Christian unity. May God bless you for answering His call!
Another NEWS FLASH for you. Bob is usually working full time selling shoes or in the factory. Main stream Protestant (as opposed to protestant) Including Methodist, Lutheran, Anglican, etc.. are usually full time positions, the rest it seems (to me) it is just a hobby on weekends.
Obviously the Youtube poster made up the title. I re-titled the link as appropriate as I could considering the contents of the video. Also, since some Catholics here openly try to enlist recruits to their faith here, I thought it would be also appropriate to issue an adversary on that.
The only "mask" here is the anonymity, they can say all those things that would make smoke come out of "Sister Bertha Betterthanme's" ears if you said it to her face.
>>Another NEWS FLASH for you. Bob is usually working full time selling shoes or in the factory. Main stream Protestant (as opposed to protestant) Including Methodist, Lutheran, Anglican, etc.. are usually full time positions, the rest it seems (to me) it is just a hobby on weekends.
That’s not a news flash either. Methodists do have part time Licensed Local Pastors, multiple charge pastors, and Certified Lay Ministers—all of whom do not serve a church full-time.
But you are right about Bob. If Bob opened his storefront church to get rich, then he probably will quit the factory to grow his new business. If he felt a calling to be a pastor, then he might stay at the factory so as not to be a drain on his church’s resources. In fact, he may put a sizable amount of his factory income into the church.
As one who has been able to frequent the RF, i do not remember seeing you and you often being called a Pharisee and narrow minded or the rest here. And you offer no evidence of "Protestant lay people" doing so elsewhere , while translating this into them hating clergy almost sounds like a psychological complex.
About the only kind of place i would expect to see what you describe in Huffington Post or the like, and in which the type of "Protestant" requires a definition so wide that Unitarians are included.
Meanwhile, the fact is that the laity are indeed the real priests along with the pastors, as in no place does the Holy Spirit cal NT pastors "priests." For the word which the Holy Spirit distinctively uses for priests*, is “hiereus” or “archiereus.” (Heb. 4:15; 10:11) and which is never used for NT pastors, nor does the words presbuteros (senior/elder) or episkopos (superintendent/overseer) which He does use for NT pastors mean "priest." Presbuteros or episkopos do not denote a unique sacrificial function, and hiereus (as archiereus=chief priests) is used in distinction to elders in such places as Lk. 22:66; Acts 22:5 .
This use of priest is defended by the use of an etymological fallacy, since "priest" etymologically is derived from presbyteros due to imposed functional equivalence.
The only way NT pastors are called "priests" is by way of inclusion in the general priesthood (hierateuma) of all believers as they all function as priests, offering both gifts and sacrifices response to being forgiven of sins, in thanksgiving and service to God and for others. (1Pt. 2:5,9; Rm. 12:1; 15:16; Phil. 2:17; 4:18; Heb. 13:15,16; cf. 9:9)
Also, i must ask when were you born again? What do you think of George Whitfield, and J. C. RYLE's "are you born again ?
Does the above describe you and your congregation?
And do you think they would remain in a church the accepts homosexuals?
In addition, your complaint reminds me somewhat of another post recently in which someone complained about finding some bugs in her rice or something.
Pastoral ministry is by no means easy if done with strong and sincere commitment, but i think you lack perspective, and perhaps more.
While not an ordained pastor, while i look forward to serving the Lord in being an instrument of the grace of the living Lord who gave me new life, yet I have often complained about some the Lord has called me to minister to who try my patience, and who seem to often call when i am about to eat, or late at night, but whom i answer and try to at least listen and respond. .
But I think one of the most dreadful words one can hear is, "Ye cannot serve the Lord," (Judges. 24:19) and to be put on the shelf, which can be in degrees. If you were in that position and then by God's grace you were restored, would you complain about a lack of appreciation or the burdens of ministry?
Or the attitude of Paul to the most carnal and time consuming church he had, which ran after some self proclaimed super apostles, and had to be reproved and reminded of who instrumentally birthed and nursed them:
"For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong. Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved." (2 Corinthians 12:13-15)
If the rich man in Hell could come back and serve the Lord, what would his attitude be?
As i said, sometimes perspective is needed. For men as well, but also for all pastors and "laity."
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