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To: daniel1212
... wrests texts to teach 2Pt. 1:20 is about interpretation of Scripture...

I read your response and am not persuaded. I also note scripture in the follow up epistle by the same author dealing with those who wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction. I compare and contrast this with the case if what heresies could infect the churches of the holy catholic apostolic church that Jesus build on the apostles and prophets, himself being the chief cornerstone. How could sheep follow a wolf in sheep's clothing unless said wolf was misinterpreting the scriptures to lead them astray. With the thousands of denominations, sects, and even virtual websites that cloak the background and ordination of the teachers, I can see how sheep are led astray by false teachers who misinterpret the scripture, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Te therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

98 posted on 07/24/2014 8:24:21 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: af_vet_1981

“Te” should read “Ye”; smart phone spell checkers misinterpret and change text they don’t understand.


100 posted on 07/24/2014 8:37:06 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: af_vet_1981
I read your response and am not persuaded

As expected. For the weight of Scripture is not the basis for the veracity of RC teaching, but Scripture is a servant to be compelled to support traditions of men, and RCs have a great deal of liberty to adopt interpretations of Scripture to support Rome, resulting in such wresting as you engage in.

I also note scripture in the follow up epistle by the same author dealing with those who wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction.

And 2pt. 3:16 is a warning to you, who seeks to employ this text to support the premise that this forbids private interpretation, meaning that all beliefs must conform the infallible magisterium of Rome, and as long an RC holds to this than they cannot be persuaded otherwise no matter how strong the evidence is against RC teaching.

“All that we do [as must be patent enough now] is to submit our judgment and conform our beliefs to the authority Almighty God has set up on earth to teach us; this, and nothing else.” “He is as sure of a truth when declared by the Catholic Church as he would be if he saw Jesus Christ standing before him and heard Him declaring it with His Own Divine lips.” —“Henry G. Graham, "What Faith Really Means", (Nihil Obstat:C. SCHUT, S. T.D., Censor Deputatus, Imprimatur: EDM. CANONICUS SURMONT, D.D.,Vicarius Generalis. WESTMONASTERII, Die 30 Septembris, 1914 )]

For neither 2Pt. 1:20 or 2Pt. 3:16 is censuring determination of Truth by individual interpretation or teaching reliance upon an infallible magisterium, but both are making Scripture the supreme authority by which both false prophets and teachers are exposed.

For indeed, you will always have misuse of authority in this world, and your error is in taking warnings of that as meaning relying on Scripture for assurance of Truth, and reading and understanding Scripture without an infallible magisterium. But while the office of the teacher is critical as is administration, yet the Scriptures were and are the supreme authority, and the church began in dissent from the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, and inheritors of promises of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation.

And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

Thus it is not the word of the Roman magisterium that is set in contrast to false prophets and teachers, but Scripture, and thus Paul's writings are invoked for support, (2pt. 3:15) while it is the misuse of Scripture by the unlearned and unstable that is warned of, not that of reading and understanding without an infallible magisterium, or reliance upon it.

I compare and contrast this with the case if what heresies could infect the churches of the holy catholic apostolic church that Jesus build on the apostles and prophets, himself being the chief cornerstone.

But reliance upon an assuredly infallible magisterium is not Peter's answer, and instead you must read it into Scripture. Under the Roman model, how and why should the common people follow a couple of itinerant Preachers whom the magisterium rejected?

Moreover, as said, this takes the problem of wrong interpretation to a higher and wider level, as it means one individual can declare Truth by fiat, even without the consensus of the bishops, and with the magisterium being supreme, most all the flock can be led into error, as is the case with papal infallibility.

How could sheep follow a wolf in sheep's clothing unless said wolf was misinterpreting the scriptures to lead them astray.

Indeed, but which does not mean an assuredly infallible magisterium is what it set forth as the solution, and instead it is substantially a case of the wolf being over the chicken house.

And an infallible magisterium is needed so the flock will not be lead astray, then again, how did the people rightly judge John was a prophet indeed when the established magisterium rejected him?

With the thousands of denominations, sects, and even virtual websites that cloak the background and ordination of the teachers, I can see how sheep are led astray by false teachers who misinterpret the scripture, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Indeed, Rome has her schism and sects, and has engaged in much labor cloaking those who were exposed by the world, while you have joined the ranks of false teachers by making 2pt. 1:20 to be about interpreting Scripture, when it is about written prophecy, and which is judged by reading Scripture. Which also exposes those who misuse Scripture under the pretense of being infallible, as according to her interpretation/decree, only her judgment is correct in any conflict.

The divisions among those who hold Scripture as supreme do not disallow it as being so, as those who most strongly hold to it have the strongest unity, versus the fruit of Rome.

Meanwhile divisions are a judgment upon the church under the model in which Truth is established upon Scriptural; substantiation, as it requires establishing Truth upon that basis, not self declaration as under Rome and cults.

"But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power." "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power." (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen

Indeed, and it was not the Eucharist that nourished them with graced, but

"If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained." (1 Timothy 4:6)

"And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified." (Acts 20:32)

114 posted on 07/24/2014 12:31:46 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: af_vet_1981; daniel1212
I also note scripture in the follow up epistle by the same author dealing with those who wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction.

It is the unlearned and unstable, Peter said, who wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction. Damnable heresies are disputed by the authority of God's word NOT the presumed authority of men.

124 posted on 07/24/2014 2:57:19 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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