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To: Phinneous

Antelman made it clear where he stood on non-Orthodox Judaism. He says Reform Judaism, Haskala, and to a lesser extent, Conservative Judaism, do not keep the 613 commandments, make excuses to not do so because they live in modern society. It thus seems your kind of Chabad is not as strong as his.

But this hasn’t got that much to do with my original post, i.e., your statement about hastening the coming of your Messiah. Just how are you folks doing this, since, according to the Talmud, the world has to be evil for him to come?

By the way, Antelman did not invent all this about Sabbatai, Frank, etc., we’re talking historical events here, most of his book is based on the writings of the late professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Gershom Sholem. He documents the connecting of his “dots,” I find his documenting of them hard to refute.


9 posted on 07/15/2014 9:36:20 AM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas

One cannot draw an obligation from just any story or statement in the Talmud, (think of it as “actionable intel.” if you were ever in the military. Much of the Talmud isn’t up for interpretation or inference on what a Jew must or mustn’t do.)

That being said, “Just how are we folks doing this since...”
The world is still in judgement— and it can still go either way. In fact, your proof text is homiletic (not actionable intel,) just like a statement from the halachic (actionable Jewish religious law) codifier and master, Rabbi Moses ben Maimon (Maimoneded of Medieval Spain,) that “The world stands in judgement constantly, and we must view each [good deed] as being the one that can push the scale towards a righteous judgement...(to paraphrase)” Also not-actionable intelligence, except to inspire Jews (and righteous gentiles) to do one more and yet even one more ‘mitzvah’ (commandment, good deed) to tip the scales.

In short, don’t worry about the Jews and the Talmud.... just do good.

Last note, it is frustrating, I admit— waiting and waiting and reliving every single day like today is the day. But like I’ve mentioned in another back-and-forth before with other Freepers (and assuming you are a devout Christian,) we both know a sort of waiting game don’t we?


11 posted on 07/15/2014 9:53:22 AM PDT by Phinneous
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To: sasportas; Phinneous
Antelman made it clear where he stood on non-Orthodox Judaism. He says Reform Judaism, Haskala, and to a lesser extent, Conservative Judaism, do not keep the 613 commandments, make excuses to not do so because they live in modern society. It thus seems your kind of Chabad is not as strong as his.

Antelman is not Chassidic. He is Modern Orthodox. If you don't know the differences among all the various strains of Orthodoxy, then you don't know much about Judaism.

There is a difference in opposing phony Judaisms and opposing the genuine Halakhic Jews who make up those movements. One's classification as a Jew does not depend on how Orthodox one is. All that matters is that one was born to a Jewish mother. An atheist born to a Jewish mother is still Jewish. Similarly, most (though by no means all) Jews who participate in these liberal movements are genuine Jews, though their versions of "Judaism" aren't real Judaism at all.

It is a major commandment in Judaism to love all Jews, even the "bad" ones. Orthodox Jews can and do oppose and expose phony liberal counterfeit versions of Judaism, but they cannot declare the members to be "not real Jews" if they are in fact Halakhically Jewish.

This is very different from chrstianity. You'll never understand Judaism if you insist on viewing it through a chrstian prism.

20 posted on 07/15/2014 12:08:18 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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