The Subterranean Temple

Phinneous, I have read both of Antelman's books. Sasportas may not be an expert on Judaism, but he was not accusing Orthodox Jews of trying to bring Mashiach by sinning. He is following Antelman, who says that the Sabbateans and Frankists still exist, that they are the liberal Jews of today, and that they created the other so-called "branches of Judaism."

You may not draw an obligation from this particular Talmud quote, but it is clear from Antelman’s book, and from Sholem’s writings which he drew from, that a particular line of Jews (Sabbatai, Frank, etc.), in anticipation of the Messiah like yourself, certainly did! How one interprets such Talmudic statements as this can have great consequences, whether his interpretation is correct or not is irrelevant.
About me worrying. I am not in the least worrying about what you folks do to hasten the coming of your Messiah. I’ve “read the back of the book,” I know who wins in the end.

My interest in Antelman and this hastening the coming of the Messiah business has to do with Bible prophecy.

The fact that someone had the bright idea to include the "new testament" between the same covers as the TaNa"KH does not make it true. I have learned the futility of trying to reason with you people about this, but it's still so.

You sound very much like someone who believes the "bible" prophesies about "the Jews" as the bad guys in the chrstian eschaton and that these Sabbateans and Frankists fit that bill for you. You seem to regard Orthodox Jews (whom you seem to think are all "Chabad") are the few good Jews left, just waiting to be converted to chrstianity at the "second coming." If all this is true, then I am afraid you are very ignorant on most of these topics.

I hope you aren't one of those "synagogue of Satan" people. A miserable little Nazi who accused Orthodox Jews of worshiping "Satan" was just banned a few weeks ago.

Jer 3:16 “And it shall be, when you have increased, and shall bear fruit in the land in those days,” declares יהוה, “that they no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of יהוה.’ Neither would it come to heart, nor would they remember it, nor would they visit it, nor would it (be made) (asah) again. 17 “At that time Yerushalayim shall be called the throne of יהוה, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the Name of יהוה, to Yerushalayim, and no longer walk after the stubbornness of their evil heart.

JPS: Jer 3:16 And it shall come to pass, when ye are multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more: The ark of the covenant of the LORD; neither shall it come to mind; neither shall they make mention of it; neither shall they miss it; neither shall it (be made) (asah) any more.

If something still exists, it would need to be made again now would it?

You are using a mistranslation to attempt to arrive at a “prophesy” that fits missionary (or just stock Christian) replacementism. Sorry, it’s been argued throughout the centuries already.

http://m.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16000#showrashi=true

To clarify, I thought your first post was somehow saying "ash," as in the ark was made into ash or destroyed.... (I see it is a transliteration.) What remains is the interpretation and it remains an agreement to disagree. The Jewish commentators render the phrase in question [Vih-Lo ye-ah-seh] as "will not be done." What will not be done anymore? ...Taking the Ark into battle... Here is a Christian site with the same rendering: http://biblehub.com/text/jeremiah/3-16.htm The root עשה is "to make" or "to do" This is not a trick of the text...it is used interchangeably in thousands of places.

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