Msgr Pope ping
We would not be free to drive if there were no traffic laws. The ensuing chaos would making driving quite impossible, not to mention dangerous. The freedom to drive, to come and go, depends on us limiting our freedom and cooperating through obedience to agreed-upon norms. Only within the limited freedom of traffic laws and agreed-upon norms can we really experience the freedom to drive, or to come and go. (See photo upper right.)
Stopped reading here with the confusion between freedoms and abiliities... Laws are made to protect freedoms, not to limit them. I drive against the norm, the laws and i cause accidents that i am responsible for, with or without licensing.
T
Translation: The truth about “free will”.
Hogwash.
True freedom is when you have the right to choose your own actions, knowing full well the consequences of those actions, and the unfettered by government, church or any other outside entity.
We never surrender our freedom. We choose to follow laws because
1) we collectively put those laws in place and therefore choose to honor them
2) we understand the consequences of not obeying the laws and consider the consequences of obedience less stressful than those of non-compliance.
If government has any power over us, it is because we gave it to them. We choose our representatives, and they make the laws on our behalf. (That is how it is supposed to be anyway.)
The government doesn't tell us what to do. We freely choose to follow its laws. If the laws are unjust, we have the right to change them, or rebel (and face the consequences of rebellion, which in some cases might be the best thing to do).
As for the religious aspect:
God allows us to make our own decisions and holds us responsible for the consequences of those decisions.
The church has an obligation to inform us of the consequences of obeying, or not obeying God's laws, but it has no right to tell us what to do or to punish us (short of excommunication from its circle of influence).
If there are any "boundaries" on our freedom, they are self-imposed. Neither the church nor the government has any power over me. I choose to follow God's laws because I trust Him and know that He has my best interests in mind. I choose follow society's laws, knowing that I have a part in creating them, changing them, and if necessary, in association with my compatriots, challenging them.
Ping!
Blah, blah blah........
Clearly, this guy is FAR on the side of “LIMITS” and not too hot on this here “freedom” thingy.
I often use the traffic analogy when explaining my views on ideals vs. reality when it comes to the Church, Government, etc.
Imagine a small town with one traffic light at its only 4-way intersection. If you are a local bigwig or a friend of the cop, you can run the light with impunity, but if you're on the cop's sh!t list or from out of town, you're going to get pulled over and ticketed regardless of how closely you observe the law.
Just because the human element involved is at best imperfect, and at worst corrupt, does not in any way invalidate the notion that traffic lights at intersections are a good idea. Similarly, while humans administering the Church and those holding political office may be likewise imperfect or corrupt, this does not invalidate the higher ideals and concepts with which they've been entrusted.
And anarchy leads to the collapse of freedom into chaos and the tyranny of individual wills locked in power struggles.
Anarchy is thought of in so many terms that it would be impossible for any one to agree on it, but I believe it comes from the phrase ( with out a ruler ).
The Government of this nation was set up on those principles, it was set up as a nation governed by the people, not a ruler.
The people were not satisfied, they wanted a ruler because the pride of a ruler will urge him to do their will even though it is against the law which the nation is governed by.
After every thing is in shambles then the ruler as did Hitler will show what they really are.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." - Thomas Jefferson
Alexis De Tocqueville said, “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
Neither de Tocqueville, John Adams, nor anyone else of note who expressed this idea ever claimed that government could create morality or faith. The logical conclusion of the quotation is that if we want liberty we have to, among other things, encourage the revival of morality and faith through churches, voluntary associations, and individuals - NOT that we should use government to punish immoral or faith-less acts.