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To: paladinan

Another point that needs to be made is that there can be a difference between “everlasting punishment” and “everlasting torment.” The punishment can be construed to be irreversible destruction.


49 posted on 06/04/2014 7:43:19 AM PDT by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: Genoa
Another point that needs to be made is that there can be a difference between “everlasting punishment” and “everlasting torment.” The punishment can be construed to be irreversible destruction.

I don't see how... unless one ignores (or "explains away") the rest of Scripture! That interpretation would make nonsense of the verse:

"and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:10)

...and the following:

"And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name." (Revelation 14:11)

Taking the second case first:

1) I do wonder if anyone would be tempted to say, about Rev 14:11, "Ah! But it says that the SMOKE of their torment goes up forever and ever, but maybe God allowed the tormented souls to be consumed, and He just keeps the smoke around, eternally rising, as a memento!" If so, then I can only reply that such an idea is... weird, to say the least (and Occam's Razor cuts it to ribbons).

2) I also wonder if anyone would try to say, about Rev 20:10, "Ah! God torments the DEVIL and his DEMONS eternally (or at least the devil, death, the beast, and the false prophet), but it doesn't say that He'll torment the HUMAN souls of the DAMNED eternally! Those, He'll treat differently, and with ore mercy!" That idea would be simply short-sighted and wrong, for the following reasons:

a) God is all-merciful.
b) God is all-good.
c) God does not--nay, He CANNOT--create anything which is evil. When Lucifer and the (now) fallen angels were first created, they were 100% good.
d) God loves all His children--all His creatures--infinitely.
e) It is completely contrary to the Nature of God that He should freely create angels whom He knew would suffer eternally. If God is so "merciful" as to annihilate the souls of the damned in order to "spare them suffering", then what are we to make of the same God Who would allegedly create (with full foreknowledge) immortal angels who would fall and suffer eternally?
68 posted on 06/04/2014 8:04:35 AM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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