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To: ravenwolf

“Actually I have saw nothing in the apostles writing to indicate they were talking about a first resurrection but only a resurrection..”

There sure is evidence of that. They mention the same events associated with the first resurrection, Christ descending from the heavens, the last trumpet, Christ’s army in the clouds, etc. Unless you have evidence that all those events are going to happen multiple times, then we have to assume they were speaking of the first resurrection described in Revelation.

“Jesus only comes to earth twice, the first time to set up his Church ( the kingdom of God )and at the last day to gather his elect.

It makes sense to me that Jesus took his first fruits with him other wise what in the world is Paul talking about in Romans 8?”

Well, it’s certainly possible that the ones resurrected along with Jesus at the opening of the graves were the ones Paul was talking about, but that doesn’t make them part of the first resurrection.

I think the key here is that just because they are called the “first” and “second” resurrections, and those are the only resurrections we have a lot of specific teaching on, does not necessarily mean God never resurrects anyone else in separate events. The first and second resurrections are not the only resurrections, they are just the only general resurrections, of entire classes of people, rather than specific acts of resurrections, such as the one that happened when Christ rose again. We are taught about the first and second more specifically because, for most people reading the Bible, those are the only resurrections they will ever have to worry about being a part of.

“So if the first fruits are from the tribes of Israel there is no way that Christians could be in the first resurrection.”

Christians are grafted in as heirs to the promise, so God sees us as Israel. The firstfruits are said to be of Israel, but they were beheaded for their witness of Christ, so they are obviously not religiously Jewish, they were/are Christians.

“So if nothing fits the idea of the Christians waiting for the first resurrection then maybe we need to start looking at it in a different light.”

Well, we had better hope that we are waiting for the first resurrection, otherwise we don’t have much hope. Those who are part of the second resurrection are judged on their works, and no man can possibly be judged righteous based on his works, as Paul quite thoroughly explained. This is why the second resurrection is also called the resurrection of the unrighteous or the resurrection of the wicked.


72 posted on 06/01/2014 9:36:53 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

The firstfruits are said to be of Israel, but they were beheaded for their witness of Christ, so they are obviously not religiously Jewish, they were/are Christians.


Yes that fits as far as I can understand it.

I believe those who went with Christ actually did live again and have been with us for hundreds of years as kings and priests, though they were Jews in the resurrection they would be Christians in the kingdom of God.

As pail states in Roman 8 they were conformed to the image of his son.

Rev 20
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The Bible shows clearly that the kingdom of God is within us but many people has looked for a literal kingdom of God, I believe the above is how it is happening.

The secular kingdom is to lead us to the spiritual kingdom.

Oh well, I am just rambling but that is the only way I can see it.


75 posted on 06/01/2014 11:56:44 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Boogieman

Those who are part of the second resurrection are judged on their works, and no man can possibly be judged righteous based on his works,


James2
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,

16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that?

17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

This is exactly what Jesus taught.

Paul was only saying that we could not work our way to salvation through the law because works with out faith is also dead.

Regardless of who was in the first Resurrection, At the last day Jesus is going to raise the believers.

Rev 20
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Jesus is going to raise all of those whose name is written in the book of life, the names written in the book of life are there or not there depending on their works.


76 posted on 06/01/2014 12:31:20 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Boogieman; ravenwolf
“So if nothing fits the idea of the Christians waiting for the first resurrection then maybe we need to start looking at it in a different light.”

Christ said "I and the resurrection." There are several resurrections in scripture but they all died. Christ's resurrection was different. I would say that Christ is the first resurrection and if there is a second resurrection, then that would also be Christ.

Note that in Revelation 20 it says blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection. It is the believer that has part in Christ's resurrection that will not be hurt in the second death.

It appears there are two births, two deaths and two resurrections. If there is a pattern here, then it might be that the second resurrection is not necessary or possible until after the second death which isn't until the end of Revelation 20.
77 posted on 06/01/2014 1:04:45 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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