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To: dartuser
    "Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen." (Rev. 1:7)

>>>The preterists assure us that this verse is describing the “cloud coming” of Jesus Christ in judgment upon Jerusalem (at which every eye did not see Him). They assert that this was fulfilled when Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70 and that the context of the verse is restricted either to Jerusalem and its environs, or to the Roman empire and Mediterranean region. They achieve this exegetical slight-of-hand by restricting “tribes” to mean “Israel” and “earth” to be “land.” Thus, they maintain that only the “[Israelite] tribes of the land” are specified in this passage.<<<

Literalism is a virtual minefield, that should only be considered with much caution, and always in context. For example, if everyone must literally see Jesus coming in the clouds, then how can the following be literally fulfilled?

    "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged." (Jn 16:7-11 KJV)


Those are the words of Jesus, and are crystal clear. Even His beloved John did not see Jesus on Patmos. Jesus sent his angel:

    "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Rev 22:16 KJV)


So, which is it? Do we all see him, or do we not see him? Or, are Rev 1:7 and Matt 24:30 referring to something allegorical that the high priest Caiaphas "understood" to be blasphemy:

    "Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." (Mt 26:64 KJV)


Recall that in the old testament, the Lord's presence was generally hidden or masked by a "cloud" or "fire," of sorts. When the Lord was present otherwise, it was typically as an angel of the Lord, as both Moses and John experienced.

In all cases, he is the same Lord: the one who spoke to Moses via his angel from the "burning bush;" the one who came unto Moses "in a thick cloud;" the one who went before the children of Israel in a "pillar of a cloud;" the one who spoke to John via his angel on Patmos; and the one who comes "in the clouds of heaven" in the Revelation.

Philip

42 posted on 05/30/2014 9:37:09 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: PhilipFreneau
Philip ... step away from your keyboard slowly ... then take a deep breath ... get a little oxygen to your brain ... your in desperate need ... ok ... now listen carefully.

John 16 is from the Upper Room discourse ... only Jesus and the 12 were there ... the whole context of the discourse is that Jesus is going away. His death, resurrection, and ascension are near ... He specifically said He was going back to the Father ...

He is speak to his apostles ... not everyone. Is it really so hard to just read the text ... in context?

48 posted on 05/31/2014 9:32:18 AM PDT by dartuser
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