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To: PhilipFreneau
Where does it say he "physically returns to earth?"

He departed from the Mount of Olives right? If He comes the same way ... how is it a stretch to believe He will return to the Mount of Olives?

In fact, one of the most significant passages in the OT depicting this coming is in Zechariah 14 ... in which it specifically says He will return to the Mount of Olives.

After His return ... vs 9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth; in that day the Lord will be the only one, and His name the only one.

Do you believe the Lord is king over all the earth today? Is He the only one worshipped? Is His name the only God who is named on the face of the earth?

If you are honest Philip, you must answer 'no' ... and I think you would answer that way. He is not the only one ... there are many false religions, false gods, false teachers today ...

I look forward to the time when He alone will be King over the earth (yes, the earth) ...

Then you and I will agree on everything ... ok, maybe you will still have a different philosophy of the best chess openings for white.

105 posted on 06/02/2014 5:42:10 AM PDT by dartuser
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To: dartuser
>>>He departed from the Mount of Olives right? If He comes the same way ... how is it a stretch to believe He will return to the Mount of Olives?<<<

Read it again. Not once do they (the men in white) say he returns to earth. As explained previously, Acts 1:9-11 matches Paul's understanding of the first resurrection in 1 Thess 4:16-17; and in neither case does the Lord return "to earth;" rather he returns "from heaven." Big difference! Paul wrote that they rise up to meet him. You do believe that, don't you?


>>>In fact, one of the most significant passages in the OT depicting this coming is in Zechariah 14 ... in which it specifically says He will return to the Mount of Olives. After His return ... vs 9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth; in that day the Lord will be the only one, and His name the only one.<<<

It does not say he "RETURNS" to mount Olives. In fact, in the next verse it says he returns with his saints. I recommend you refrain from adding words to the scriptures.


>>>After His return ... vs 9 "And the Lord will be king over all the earth; in that day the Lord will be the only one, and His name the only one."<<<

>>> Do you believe the Lord is king over all the earth today? Is He the only one worshipped? Is His name the only God who is named on the face of the earth?<<<

Your statement and questions contain spiritualized scriptures. First, it does not say he reigns after he returns. Zech 14 is referring to the "day of the Lord," which covers many years (about 40 in my estimation.) They are not necessarily chronological.

For example, verse 3 chronologically follows verse 2 because of the use of the word "Then" in verse 3. But most of the others are connected with the word "And", which means they could occur in any order.

You interpreted the first question right: yes, the Lord is, and has been, king over all the earth since the first century; but you spiritualized the 2nd and 3rd questions to fit a preconceived futurist doctrine. This is how those clauses actually read:

    "…in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one."

Any why is that important to know? Because the Jews were into idolatry, mentioned in the previous chapter:

    "And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land." (Zec 13:2 KJV)

To accomplish that, the Lord first sent the Holy Sprit to the earth (after he ascended to the father.) That prophecy to send the holy spirit is found in the verse after the one you posted. But they are connected with the word "And." Therefore, we do not know exactly when the Lord established his kingdom, except that it happened during "the day of the Lord" in the mid-first century.

This is the context of your verse, showing the day of Pentecost, immediately followed by the declaration that the Lord is king over all the earth:

    "And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one." (Zec 14:8-9 KJV)

In that "day:" the day of the Lord, which lasted about forty years, the idolatry of the Jews was destroyed (Zech 13:2,) the prophecy was sealed (Daniel 9:24,) and there was no turning back. Within that "forty" year span, called "the day of the Lord" (many places,) and "the great and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal 4:5,) the Lord became king over all the earth; and nothing could stop Him from placing all his enemies under his feet. But that takes time:

    "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1Cor 15:25-26 KJV)

That will be fulfilled, that is, death will be destroyed, at the final judgement in Revelation 20:14.

The notions that his enemies are instantly destroyed, or that the nations immediately beat their swords into plowshares, as soon as he sits down in his throne, are serious theological errors, and lead to many other errors.


>>>If you are honest Philip, you must answer 'no'<<<

You are not claiming I have been dishonest, are you? Borrowing the words of Justin Martyr to Trypho the Jew"

    “I am not so miserable a fellow,[Dartuser], as to say one thing and think another." ["Dialogue with Trypho", Chapter LXXX]

LOL!


>>> ... and I think you would answer that way. <<<

I personally think I should continuing avoiding all questionable doctrines. Rather I should continue relying on the plain words of the scriptures, when available; and approach with caution those scriptures that are clearly allegorical, such as Zech 14:4-5, and almost the entire 19th chapter of the Revelation.


>>>He is not the only one ... there are many false religions, false gods, false teachers today<<<

He is the only Lord. As you said, the others are false. However, the context of that statement you are misinterpreting was referring to the idolatry of the Jews under the old covenant, as aforementioned, in Zechariah 13:2. The old covenant was fulfilled by Christ, Galatians 3:16; and idolatry amongst God's people was destroyed in AD 70 when God divorced the sinful Jews and destroyed them, along with their organization and instruments of idolatrous worship within Jerusalem.

A quick note: in the old testament, when the Lord used the words, "the land," he always identified "the land;" except maybe in some cases relating to Israel or the promised land. For example he would use modifiers, such as "the land of Assyria," or "the land of Egypt;" or identify the land in other ways.

But in Zech 13:2, he only uses the words, "the land." But we know that was a reference to the land of Israel, or, in this case, Judaea, because he begins the chapter in the previous verse with a reference to Jerusalem.


>>>I look forward to the time when He alone will be King over the earth (yes, the earth)<<<

Then you should be very happy, because he alone is King over the earth, and has been since the first century.


>>>Then you and I will agree on everything ... ok, maybe you will still have a different philosophy of the best chess openings for white.<<<

I seriously doubt I will ever agree with dispensationalism/futurism, or, generally speaking, futurists. I refrain from using the adverb "never," because all things are possible; but agreeing with futurists is impossible for me unless the Lord himself tells me otherwise.

Philip

114 posted on 06/02/2014 10:05:17 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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