Here are your main points, then:
1. Post 74 - Calvin’s god was a Sadistic monster.
2. Post 76 - The eternal destiny of the unsaved is eternal torture
3. Post 76 - The degree of eternal torture is varied based on the level of guilt
4. Post 77 - Belief is something we do, independent of God, in response to his offer of salvation
5. Post 77 - QUOTE: Predestination is not to justification, but to being conformed to the image of Jesus. And those he “foreknew” are the subject of that predestination, but it does not say if those he foreknew means a list of names God picked to save, or those whom God knew would repent and believe. (in response to the SCRIPTURE Rom 8:30 "And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified")
6. Post 86 - QUOTE: "If not, why do you believe the lake of fire is literal?" I suppose you are asserting that it is not literal?
7. Post 87 - QUOTE: "Notice that once he is in ‘this place of torment’ (in which ‘flames’ are mentioned), the rich man still acts on the basis of free will. I.e.: an eternal perspective hasn’t made a Calvinist out of him; quite the contrary; he believes his brothers are capable of repentance if they so choose." I am not sure what to make of this. You mentioned the "Entirely non-Biblical, but quite remarkable." idea of multiple judgments (which I did not suggest), yet you assert this man is in "torment", yet his brothers can still repent. You could be asserting: a) People are judged immediately at death, and cast into the "place of torment" forever, thus his brothers could still repent. b)This is after a final judgment of all men, and the rich man does not understand his brothers are hopelessly condemned like himself c)same as b, but the brothers could repent and escape the "place of torment. d)something else?
8. Post 104: QUOTE: "if some had previously been judged worthy to occupy a place of comfort, & to enjoy Abraham’s embrace, & were marched in from that place to stand judgment (again), while others had been judged worthy to occupy a place of flame & torment, & had been routed from there only to face a second damning judgment, there would be no surprises. Every person present would already have been judged once, & the second time would be redundant." Another one I am not sure how to take. I get your aversion to multiple judgements, but you have a hole in your timeline. What happened to Lazarus when he died 2000 years ago, that is, what happened to his soul? Soul Sleep? Limbo? Purgatory? If he did not go to Abarahams bosom to await final judgment, and the rich man did not go to a less comfortable place to await judgment, where did they go?
Hi again, jimmyray. Apology accepted. I read through your post, and I can tell you it will take me a while to respond. I’m about to log off for the night, & I literally don’t know when I’ll be back online for any length of time. I’m on the brink of another very busy period. I’ll plan to answer when my schedule permits.
Meantime, I did want to address one of your prior comments. I really should have said something about it at the time. It was late, however, & the discussion seemed at an end, so it slipped past.
Here is the comment in question:
“QUOTE: Something is keeping you from comprehending it.”
‘So I’m thick, there it is.’
You said of one of my prior comments, it went to the heart of the matter. [I don’t agree, but that is another topic.] This comment, in its own way, goes to the heart of a serious matter. Namely, it reveals that after all this interaction, you still have no earthly idea what I am like as a person. I.e.: you see me as the kind of person who would not only call you stupid (on a public forum, no less), but would ask you to analyze yourself & *admit* you are stupid.
jimmyray, only a jerk would do that. Have you really exchanged all these comments with me, only to conclude that I am a jerk?
This is what I’m talking about when I say you don’t understand what I’m writing. I’m not saying that because I think you’re stupid. That thought never entered my mind. However, ***something*** is impeding communication between us. If you rule out even the possibility that the ‘something’ I have in mind has to do with IQ [& you really do need to rule this out; as I said, this idea never entered my thinking, not even obliquely], then can you form any hypothesis as to what it may be?
I believe that something is making it very difficult for you to get to the heart of my comments. I may be wrong or I may be right...I think I am right. I would like to bring my idea out into the open. However, I would first like to hear any speculation you have on the subject. If you have the time & inclination, can you brainstorm a little, & toss out any ideas that occur to you? Perhaps we’ll end up agreeing on at least one thing, prior to returning to the specific points at hand. Time will tell.
I’ll plan to comment more as time permits. Blessings to you, in the meanwhile.