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Is This Mention of Jesus a Forgery?
Catholic Answers ^ | March 3, 2014 | Jon Sorensen

Posted on 03/04/2014 1:45:58 PM PST by NYer

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To: februus

Yes, but that’s not the only reason it’s thought to be spurious. There are other points that weigh against it, such as expressions in the writing that would not be used by a Roman, the complete lack of provenance of the letter, and the very late date of “discovery”, which coincided with a period in which forgeries of this type were very common.


21 posted on 03/04/2014 3:28:02 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Vaquero; NYer

I don’t know about pilot, but a friend said, instead of “God is my co-pilot” he preferred to say “God is my navigator.” I guess that I can and do say “Jesus is my navigator” for He puts me on the true path, and reminds me to get back on course when I stray off of it.


22 posted on 03/04/2014 3:53:26 PM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Boogieman
The Testimonium is quite obviously altered, at the least. It’s a shame that some unscrupulous people went and did that, because it casts doubt on whatever might have been mentioned about Christ in the text before the alterations.

Some "Christians" did the same type of thing in those days to the Septuagint, copying back into it the words reinterpreted by Paul and other New Testament writers of the Greek, such that some dim-witted translator/exegetes of today make claim that Jesus and other Christ-followers used the LXX and not the Hebrew texts as their Scriptures, using these insertions a "proof" that LXX was a better and approved version used by the Hellenized Jewish hoi polloi of that day.

This, of course, is a great flaw of the Greek Orthodoxen relying on the Septuagint as a reliable version of the Old Testament (which the English Authorized Version translation does not).

23 posted on 03/04/2014 4:01:57 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: februus

Material that does not survive in manuscript form is, even in the best of states, could only be put forward extremely loosely as “from the Roman archives.” That such a notable alleged manuscript might be simultaneously overlooked, lavishly bound, and conveniently lost taxes the limits of credibility beyond at least my own breaking point.


24 posted on 03/04/2014 4:23:25 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: GreyFriar

Good book. God is my copilot by Robert Scott. As a kid I saw the movie so I bought the book in the 9th grade. That was 50 years ago and I still am a big fan of the AVG/ flying tigers and the P-40 tomahawk /war hawk.

Oh I did correct the pilot/ Pilate thing the very next post.


25 posted on 03/04/2014 4:39:13 PM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: imardmd1

“some dim-witted translator/exegetes of today make claim that Jesus and other Christ-followers used the LXX and not the Hebrew texts as their Scriptures...”

Yes, I’ve run into a few that tried to make that argument around here, and extend it to some silly lengths.


26 posted on 03/04/2014 5:34:59 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Hieronymus

The Letter of Lentulus does exist, in Latin. It is thought to have been written in Greek in its original. So while the Greek manuscript from which it is drawn hasn’t surfaced the oldest dated Latin document is in the archive in Rome. I never mentioned anything lavishly bound, and even if it is simply apocryphal, it is not by any stretch overlooked - as it is still studied today by Catholic scholars. Lentulus is a historical personage mentioned in the Res Gestae Divi Augusti - the ancient annals of Rome. The medieval scholars who transcribed from the Vatican original (Codex Harleianus 2729) in the 15th Century said the manuscript was found inside the volume, and they found it notable enough to widely disseminate the letter into all the Catholic lands of Europe. My point has been that the humanists who had been the first to call the letter fraudulent based that judgement on the fact that no Publius Lentulus was known to be Governor of Judea, a false flag since it is now known that while no Governor of Judea bore this name a consul living at the time of Christ did. Therefore a consideration for authenticity bears greater attention. I won’t tax you with explaining the functions of a consul in ancient Rome, or to whom they might send their letters - but I will state that the Latin manuscript of the letter does exist, it (along with at least 16 translations - out of some 98 known- into common languages including English and German) rests in the Vatican archives in Rome.
I would suggest any serious scholars or those interested visit Bill Thayer’s website for his excellent ancient Greek to Latin to English translators and read some of his excellent works on Roman and American History. For starters try his LacusCurtius where many ancient texts can be found in their translations.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/home.html


27 posted on 03/04/2014 7:04:42 PM PST by februus
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To: februus

Ummm.


28 posted on 03/04/2014 7:12:48 PM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: NYer

Bookmarked.


29 posted on 03/04/2014 11:37:24 PM PST by scott7278 ("...I have not changed Congress and how it operates the way I would have liked..." - BHO)
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To: februus

That’s interesting. What would the color of “new wine” look like?


30 posted on 03/05/2014 10:33:24 AM PST by Nea Wood (When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.-Sowell)
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