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To: dsc
Sigh. Well, I tried.

You tried but you failed, because you were trying to sustain the premise that the Roman Catholic Church provides the only true answers. But, in reality we find everything needed within Scripture. The bogus reference in the apocrypha is not a valid reference because of its very nature. Parsing of words does not present a cogent argument, but instead is exactly how we see the distortion of God's word to try and establish an extra-Biblical position.

Once again, I will provide you with scripture to sustain my premise. Your traditions do not stand up to the measure of God's word. The very idea of pleading or asking for special favors from dead people is the antithesis of Jesus' life and purpose. God came down from heaven to live a perfect life which cannot happen with us mortals. While He was here, He promised that when he was gone, he would provide his Holy Spirit to live within us, Individually and collectively.

John 14: ... 15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. ...

... 25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. ...

... Hebrews 9: 11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining[b] eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. ...

...10: 19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.

126 posted on 12/16/2013 9:51:38 PM PST by WVKayaker ("Because nothing says "rugged individualism" like heavy-handed big government.../sarc" -Sarah Palin)
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To: WVKayaker
...because you were trying to sustain the premise that the Roman Catholic Church provides the only true answers.

Which in this case are the same as the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church and the Oriental Orthodox Christian Churches. In other words, it's the teaching of every ancient Christian Church with a direct lineage to the Apostles themselves and is consistent with the teachings handed down from the Saints.

129 posted on 12/17/2013 6:29:19 AM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: WVKayaker

“You tried but you failed”

I tried to offer you the truth, and failed.

The point I was trying to make is grounded in God’s word, and stands undisturbed.


133 posted on 12/17/2013 9:27:40 AM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: WVKayaker

“...because you were trying to sustain the premise that the Roman Catholic Church provides the only true answers.”

Just as an afterthought, and because I do not like to be misrepresented, I was sustaining nothing of the kind.

I don’t know why you said that. Not by the wildest stretch of imagination could anything I ever wrote be twisted into anything resembling that.

That shows pretty clearly that you are not arguing against what I say, or what the Catholic Church teaches, but against some imaginary construct of your own.


137 posted on 12/17/2013 11:40:58 AM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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