Posted on 10/04/2013 2:37:31 PM PDT by ebb tide
In the aftermath of yesterday’s blog post, it has become evident that Fairytale Fever has reached near epidemic proportions among the Catholic population.
With the well-deserved criticism of Interviewgate 2 making its rounds, in particular as it relates to the pope’s insistence that “proselytism is solemn nonsense,” the papal apologizers set out on an archaeological dig in search of evidence that Francis’ remarks are the stuff of papal precedent.
Well, they didn’t have to dig very deep. They couldn’t, for the simple reason that the Holy Roman Catholic Church’s distaste for her God-given mission is a post-conciliar phenomenon.
Sure, they unearthed quotes from John Paul II and Benedict XVI rejecting proselytism, but who’s kidding who? The Assisi popes are the poster boys of false ecumenism, which is all about dialogue that eventually leads to… you guessed, more dialogue.
In any case, missing from both their reading of Francis, and their defense of the same, is any semblance of context.
In the case of the alleged precedent-setter-popes, John Paul II and Benedict XVI, one will find in most cases that their negative commentary concerning proselytism is ordered toward addressing coercion, or forced conversions gained via unethical behavior. For example, the oldest quote I’ve found dates all the way back to 1995, wherein John Paul II said during a visit to Sri Lanka, “[the Church] firmly rejects proselytism and the use of unethical means to gain conversions.”
Why conflate “proselytism” with “unethical means” in the first place? Who knows, perhaps this is just another example of that favored modernist pastime, redefining words. In any case, some definitions are in order, but first, let’s revisit the interview to contextualize Pope Francis’ commentary.
My friends think it is you want to convert me. He smiles again and replies: “Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense… The translation isn’t exact. The original Italian text has been published on the Holy See’s website, which in addition to undermining the argument that the pope has no intention of revealing his papal agenda via a newspaper interview, it can be a valuable resource.
The operative part reads, Anche i miei amici pensano che sia Lei a volermi convertire.
My Italian isn’t terrific by any means, but I know enough to understand that Scalfari is more properly telling the pope that his friends think that the pope “wants me to convert.”
At this point, I shouldn’t have to point out that we’re looking at apples and oranges, but I will.
To the (apparently) ludicrous notion that the Vicar of Christ may (get this) want an atheist with whom he has developed a cordial relationship to convert to the one true faith, the pope promptly replied, “Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense.”
Are you paying attention? The pope is saying that the very idea that he may harbor a desire to see Scalfari convert to the Catholic faith is “nonsense!” That’s the context, like it or not.
Now on to some definitions.
First, let’s revisit the mission of the Church as given by Christ.
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever that I have commanded you.” (Matthew 20:19-20)
As for proselytism, this is nothing more insidious than actively seeking proselytes; i.e., converts.
That’s it, and the Church has, until very recently, been doing exactly this by means of teaching, preaching and exhorting from day one. (See St. Peter the Proselytizer in action in Acts 2 if you don’t believe me.)
Part of the redefinition effort concerns setting up a false dichotomy relative to the mission of the Church, pitting the passive luring of converts by way of godly example and genuine kindness, against active calls to conversion through preaching and teaching.
Heaven is full of saints who did all of these things to the exclusion of none, as each constitutes a necessary component of authentic love of neighbor.
Then there is the more sophomoric notion that “proselytism” refers exclusively to an effort to create converts solely by means of condemnation and conquest. This is wholesale fantasy that just barely qualifies for refutation.
There isn’t one credible voice among the critics of Pope Francis who espouse anything like this. In any case, this make believe scenario couldn’t be further away from the context with which Francis offered his own regrettable comments.
In short, the post-conciliar modernists can labor to convince themselves and others that “proselytism” is a war crime all they want, but the fact remains, it is nothing more than the very mission of the Church.
“Why change the topic like that?”
That’s what Papists do. There is no other way.
Scripture says, “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” John 20:23.
Who has forgiven your sins?
We Catholics are so fortunate to have the Sacrament of Confession available to us.
Agreed. But I proselytize to both protestants and weak Catholics, muslims, Jews, etc. Even though my current pope says my efforts are "solemn nonsense", I'll pick up the Cross he has dropped.
WOW that's cold!!!
you don't seem to get it....when an official teaching comes from the Catholic Church, it is from the Pope....noone else is qualified to issue such a statement....therefore the Pope/Catholic church are infallible when a decision comes forth....because the Pope said it in the name of the Catholic Church.....one and the same when it comes to infallibility.
please give an example of that....Mary's blood was never shed for any reason....please give an example or two
only if he declared that it was the official policy of the Catholic Church that their behavior was now acceptable by the church....He didn't
wrong
whoa, I missed something somewhere....which teachings changed in the 62-65 era????
You can follow the discussion from this post on.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3025958/posts?page=1339#1339
why would anyone leave the Church when Christ promised, personally, that He would protect her from any error in matters of faith and morals??? lOOKING FOR A BETTER PROMISE???
EENS
Quote where Jesus promised that, please. Chapter and verse.
good luck Mr. Luther, everything will work out just fine
No pope has spoken ex cathedra on a matter of faith and morals to the Universal (Catholic) Church since prior to the Second Vatican Council. In other words, no pope has spoken infallibly in that time frame. So drop your strawman; it’s tiresome.
I don't have time to do that right now, but it says somethibne like whatsoever you shall bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven and whatsoever you shall loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven......do you suppose that He would allow erroneous decisions made on Earth to be bound in Heaven????
Ahh. I see you’re one of those weak Catholics. I’ll include you in my rosary tonight.
Dude, they’re never drop their strawmen. Their house of cards is built of strawmen. If they dropped their strawmen, their silly heresy would have to be thrown under the bus!
We're watching the birth of new sedevacantist sects as we speak! And over a handful of quotes! Oh, but don't worry - no matter what position the RadTrads arrive at, it's safe to predict that they'll still say the Reformers' reactions were unjustified in response to what those popes were guilty of.
Related threads:
Know your popes: Historian Thomas W. Worcester traces dramatic changes in the papacy over 500 years
Follies of Roman Catholicism: How the Catholic Church failed to save itself from the Reformation
The Popes Of Rome
How the Renaissance Papacy contributed to the Reformation
God doesn’t create junk: Identifying a God worth serving
Top Ten Moments of the Reformation
The man who dared to laugh at the Pope ["Out of the Storm: The Life and Legacy of Martin Luther"]
THE CADAVER SYNOD: STRANGEST TRIAL IN HISTORY
Oh, I get it alright! It get it that you have gone back and forth on this issue on two different threads and it seems you don't even realize how you keep contradicting yourself. If the blinders can be grabbed off perhaps it might help to see it better.
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