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To: qam1; SeekAndFind; smvoice; Alex Murphy
eeerrrr no I currently don't believe in Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Bigfoot, The Loch Ness Monster, Unicorns, etc. If they revealed themselves, I would then believe them, not out of fear but because they would then be true.

Throughout the New Testament God is slaughtering and Smoteing non-believers."

Actually, these are very good points. And, assuming that you meant the OT, you are absolutely correct. The author of the article assumes that God is like a really nice man who is trying His darndest to present a persona valuable, kind enough to mankind to persuade them to like Him. Kind of like the Most Interesting Man in the World (he once parallel parked a train). This is not the case.

"Then what's with the Heaven & Hell thingy?"

But, you are correct...this is not the God described in the Bible. The author's God might make a good conversation piece, but the God described in the Bible actually hates a lot of men He formed for destruction (Rom. 9). They are held captive by agents He formed (IITim 2), they cannot see because He prevents them from seeing (II Thess.2), and they ultimately will be destroyed forever (everywhere).

"What Bible is this author reading? ."

Right. Anyone who believes reality is happening so men will have a "chance" to love Him voluntarily isn't reading the text. God is doing something quite different than this. Reality and the text are far more severe. Apparently, God is rescuing some from themselves with means that only He can control (I Pet. 1). He is adopting some, because He decided to before all this started (Eph. 1). To these people, He has made Himself known by infusing in them a perception not available to the rest of the world (Eph. 2).

Athiests are athiests because they cannot help it. He has crowded them out, intentionally, and will save them for a destruction that will be utter and permanent. And, He is not apologizing. For those whose citizenship has been transferred to the heavenly city, in a kingdom that cannot be shaken, lips which cannot but speak gratitude lift Him up in praise.

38 posted on 09/04/2013 9:43:04 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88; qam1; smvoice; Alex Murphy

RE: eeerrrr no I currently don’t believe in Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Bigfoot, The Loch Ness Monster, Unicorns, etc. If they revealed themselves, I would then believe them, not out of fear but because they would then be true.

There is a HUGE difference between things like dark Matter, energy, BigFoot, Lochness Monsters and Unicorns and God.

God is the CREATOR, the others (if some exist) are CREATURES.

Just curious:

1) In what manner would you prefer that God reveal Himself to you?

2) God commands that He be worshiped and yes, FEARED ( as in revered). If He revealed Himself to you in the manner you demand in order that you will believe, would you then bow down and worship and fear (in the Biblical sense ) Him?


40 posted on 09/04/2013 9:49:31 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Dutchboy88; qam1; Alex Murphy

Your post was excellent, Dutchboy88. The only reason I could possibly come up with for God doing what He is doing has to do with the original problem: 1/3 of His angels leaving Him to serve Satan when Satan rebelled. And that is only a very tiny opinion of human perception. One day we will know, though, I believe. God Bless,

sm


47 posted on 09/04/2013 11:05:01 AM PDT by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
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To: Dutchboy88
Right. Anyone who believes reality is happening so men will have a "chance" to love Him voluntarily isn't reading the text. God is doing something quite different than this. Reality and the text are far more severe. Apparently, God is rescuing some from themselves with means that only He can control (I Pet. 1). He is adopting some, because He decided to before all this started (Eph. 1). To these people, He has made Himself known by infusing in them a perception not available to the rest of the world (Eph. 2).

I believe this is a very common misperception of scripture. The situation you describe virtually eliminates the concept of free will. Without free will it's hard to make sense of anything in the Bible, or anything else for that matter. The best way I can describe my take on it, is that God is outside of time and space. He sees all of creation, from the beginning to end at once, much like you would hold a book or DVD in your hand. You have the entirety of the story right there at once, beginning, middle and end. However, in order to play it out in a manner that we can recognise, you have to introduce the concept of duration, and linear time. With the example given, you either read the book, or pop the DVD into a player to let the story play out.

Of course, the analogy breaks down somewhat, as all analogies do, because the characters in book and film are scripted. In our case, we have the free will granted to us by His providence. Because we were not designed in such a way as to percieve the universe without the constructs of time and space, we have a hard time wrapping our minds around a way for him to know everything we have done, do, and will do, yet not force us to make the choices we make in regards to Him or anything else.

Personally, I think the ultimate end-game is much larger than anything we are even capable of imagining, but it is not necessary (or perhaps desired) for us to understand what is really going on for us to play whatever part it is that we play.

One major objection to the existance of God, is the presence on this green earth of pain and suffering. Many theologians much smarter than myself have tackled that problem, and seeming contradiction of the belief in a God who genuinely loves his creation. However, as I see it, in brief, if we are immortal beings, as the Bible claims, what, really, is the consequence of anything we could experience here in the brief time we have 'in theater' compared to the vast reach and breadth of eternity itself, or whatever an existance outside of time and space is like? 

Just my two cents, you are free, of course, to agree. Or not.

Cheers!

57 posted on 09/04/2013 12:40:03 PM PDT by zeugma (Is it evil of me to teach my bird to say "here kitty, kitty"?)
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