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To: SoothingDave

I’m not trying to troll it up. If prayer is not worship, where is the line drawn? I know from study that the bible forbids communication with the dead, and states that christ is our one and only mediator. I do not know, nor have a researched what the Catholic faith believes. I didn’t know if spirit worship was okay with the RCC as long as it was for request and not adoration.


54 posted on 08/27/2013 1:06:31 PM PDT by HenryArmitage (it was not meant that we should voyage far.)
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To: HenryArmitage

You are confusing the words. Prayer can be worship but etymologically, prayer can be the asking of any favor of anyone, spiritual or physical.

Worship IS worship whether through prayer, through song, through the Mass, through actions that glorify God.


62 posted on 08/27/2013 1:19:30 PM PDT by tiki
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To: HenryArmitage
""If prayer is not worship, where is the line drawn?"

A reasonable question! Let me sketch out a little background for this, in hope this will help.

If you want examples of adoration ---- what the Catholic Church calls latria, “the kind of supreme honor due to God alone” --- look at a prayer from the Mass called the Gloria:

Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.
We praise you, we bless you,
we adore you, we glorify you,
we give you thanks,
for your great glory,
Lord God, heavenly King,
O God, almighty Father.

Lord Jesus Christ,
Only Begotten Son,
Lord God, Lamb of God,
Son of the Father,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us;
you take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer;
you are seated at the right hand of the Father:
have mercy on us.

For you alone are the Holy One,
you alone are the Lord,
you alone are the Most High, Jesus Christ,
with the Holy Spirit,
in the glory of God the Father.
Amen.

What strikes you is the absolute quality of the honor being given to God. This is what can only be given to the Creator, Ruler, Savior, Enlightener, absolute Judge of all.

Any other form of honor, properly given to a lesser being, whether angelic or human, is called dulia.

The gestures of “dulia” have varied across cultures and across the centuries. For instance, one might think that bowing to the ground is a sure sign of adoration being given. However, this is not the case according to the Bible.

Look up "kneel(ing)" and "bow(ing)" in the good old BibleGateway Keyword Search, and you’ll find so many references it would be exhausting to list them all.

• Moses bows down to father-in-law; Ruth bows down to Boaz; David prostrates before Jonathan; David prostrates to Saul; Abigail prostrates to David; Saul prostrates to Samuel; Nathan prostrates to David; Obadiah bows to the ground before Elijah; the prophets in Jericho bow before Elisha; the "whole assembly" bows low and prostrates before David; David bows toward the Temple; David prostrates toward Jerusalem; God causes the king's adversaries to bow prostrate on the ground and "lick the dust at his feet"; the sons of the oppressors will bow to Zion. And that’s not even the half of it!

OK, pretty obviously the patriarchs, prophets, and kings knew about the commandment not to bow down and worship anything or anybody but God. But here they are bowing, kneeling, and prostrating, and God is not offended. Why?

Because the commandment clearly forbids bowing and worshipping a creature as the Creator; it does not forbid kneeling or bowing (to king, prophet, father, husband or brother) as a form of honor. The commandment does not prohibit kneeling or bowing to give human honor. It prohibits adoration toward anyone but Almighty God.

It’s had to take in the whole scope of it. I hope this furnishes a good beginning.

111 posted on 08/27/2013 3:06:44 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Your favorite schoolmarm.)
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To: HenryArmitage

But, you’re not trying to troll it up. Sure.


228 posted on 08/27/2013 7:29:09 PM PDT by Jvette
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