Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
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| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
I see time as part of our creation that will be destroyed. i.e. eternity is outside of time. I thought I was unique in this viewpoint when I came up with it about 20 years ago. Turns out it’s pretty common among bible scholars.
Remember, Jesus said that before the creation of the earth, “I am”. Interesting choice of words.
I’ll keep showing their errors as long as there are lurkers...
In your fantasy world. all the arguments I gave were from scripture and are known to you to be in scripture:
The topic in James 2, Titus 3, Ephesians 2 is salvation and they call us to good works. Read the passages yourself.
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? (James 2:24)
Nothing can be plainer.
Cool, don’t be tiresome.
In fact, they must be holy. A rich man cannot normally be holy, so holiness practically presupposes poverty.
If there isn't there must be. The Catholic teaching is that we are predestined to good works and in that predestination our free will is built in.
None of which translates into believers addressing prayers to departed saints in Heaven who can process virtually unlimited prayers and respond to them. Nor does it explain the utter absence of even one example or exhortation to address anyone else in prayer to Heaven.
All your verbosity comes far, far, short of establishing PTDS, despite the abundance of material on prayer, and testifies to the blind commitment of RC zealots who abuse Scripture to serve their ends against, even though actual warrant from Scripture is not necessary, the lack of which has been exposed once again.
Thus your best argument is to stay silent as you have shown yourself to be just a shameless sophists for Rome. But perhaps generating a high number of posts on this thread will help you recommend your book. Don't expect me to help you further.
Your verbosity masks inability to understand the Holy Scripture.
Under the Roman mindmeld that is, for when Rome presumes the place of Scripture as the supreme authority, anything is possible under the pretext of superior understanding, which can decree doctrine as infallible, even if the arguments behind it are not.
What's that old saying about doing something over and over and expecting different results?
Perhaps it's time to conclude you are a very poor explainer!
This thread is PROOF that 'scholars' hold MANY crazy ideas!
Then America is getting holier and holier for many are getting poorer and poorer.
This thread is PROOF that ‘scholars’ hold MANY crazy ideas!
But I believe the viewpoint I stated is not really all that crazy. Rather, it is not very common, albeit there are lots that hold views about God and Jesus and eternity with little actual bible study. And those are the ones that tend to think of the idea as kinda whacky. When people that actually study the bible are faced with it, they must study to see if there are scriptures that contradict it or support it. It’s what I did.
Most beliefs about the specifics of eternity are speculative since the bible clearly teaches that now we “see through a glass darkly, but then face to face”. So If this “theory” I tend to believe is false, I’ll not shed a tear over it. But I have yet to find scripture that demonstrates its falsehood and plenty that supports it. The one you presented talked about specific events. It didn’t discuss what could have happened even before the earth was completely formed, etc.
I see time as part of our creation that will be destroyed. i.e. eternity is outside of time. I thought I was unique in this viewpoint when I came up with it about 20 years ago. Turns out it’s pretty common among bible scholars.
Remember, Jesus said that before the creation of the earth, “I am”. Interesting choice of words.
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There are some who speculate that Jesus redeemed us outside of our time and became man to demonstrate in a physical way what he had already attained for us.
Your post reminds me of the multiple discussions of wheels within wheels in the OT. I think we do ourselves a disservice when we think we “know” some aspects of what eternity is like. I think we are like a baby in the womb attempting to speculate what the life outside the womb has in store.
I.e. we really have almost no clue.
I shudder to think of the horror for those who have put their faith in the RCC when they realize the truth.
We’ve just been through this. They were called by God, answered the call, and are now considered saints. There are many posts in this thread showing that. Readers simply need to follow the thread back to see how you are in error.
And using the Greek letters in your posts rather than the transliteration along with the maning does no one any good. I’m not sure why you use them but it doesn’t impress me nor do I think it impresses anyone else.
Refuse to see the truth if you will but those who are truly being called by God will understand your error.
No, your explaining the RCC error and it’s not working for you.
ROFLOL!!! Not one of them showed praying with others included those who had departed this world. The belief that we should pray to or through those who have left this life is straight from paganism not from God’s scripture.<<
>>Your verbosity masks inability to understand the Holy Scripture.<<
To those of us who are Holy Spirit filled believers see a very clear understanding of scripture in his posts.
She explained that to you several times as have I. Nothing could be clearer then you are in error.
Interesting you find that tiresome. Catholics preach another gospel consistently and think it tiresome to be shown scripture that shows them in error. Stop preaching another gospel and we won’t need to follow God’s admonition to rebuke and correct.
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