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To: Belteshazzar; All
First let's understand the progressive revelation of the LORD GOD.

During the Lord's earthly ministry, the book of Hebrews to the Hebrews, definitely not written by the Apostle Paul, makes references to heaven, but this book was not yet revealed until many years after the resurrection of Christ.

Second, using reference point again during the Lord's earthly ministry, only the Old Testament scriptures were in view regarding the understanding of kingdom promises (which are abundant inside the Old Testament scriptures). Therefore, to understand the earthly kingdom of God, it is necessary to accept the nature of progressive revelation, and to perceive that at that time of the Lord's Prayer, Jesus's testimony was in observance of the Law and Prophets and promises to the Fathers.

Then with that in mind, if one were to scrutinize the Old Testament scriptures for God's promises to the nation Israel, one will find a multitude of references and promises of an earthly kingdom of God in which the LORD will reign supreme from the physical Jerusalem on the earth. Take Isaiah and Exodus as examples. These are typical of God's promises for the nation Israel regarding an physical earthly kingdom:

Isaiah 2:1-3: The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.  And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.  And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 66:23: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Exodus 19:5-6: Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people [in the nations]: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Even the book of Revelation confirms that the nation of Israel shall reign on the earth, not above in the heavenly places, as shall the believer saints.

Revelation 5:10: And hast made us [Israel] unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Therefore, the point I was making should have had more specific scriptures to succinctly demonstrate that if one were to scrutinize the Old Testament Scriptures in order to find any record that Jews had a hope of reigning above in an heavenly Jerusalem, that search will instead reveal that the Old Testament scriptures have clear promises that the nation Israel had their hopes and promises from God that are to be fulfilled in an earthly Jerusalem kingdom, not the heavenly Jerusalem kingdom where their physical bodies would reside. The nation Israel will serve in their physical bodies inside the earthly Jerusalem kingdom of God.

Deuteronomy 28:1: ...that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all the nations of the earth. 3: Blessed shall thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field. 4: Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy gound, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 5: Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.

These are all earthly kingdom blessings, not heavenly kingdom blessings. Things like city, field, cattle, flocks clearly are earthly. And these things will belong in the future Kingdom of God on the earth, and Israel will manage it, so to speak, over and above all the nations of the earth.

In contrast today, the epistles teach us that both Jews and gentiles who believe in the faith of Christ, and upon believing, we are placed into the church, His Body, called the Body of Christ, and the scriptures demonstrate that our blessings are succinctly defined for the heavenly places!

Ephesians 1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 2:6: And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 3:20: For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 15:49: And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Today, we are a part of what God is doing in the heavenly places, we are not be a part of what God has promised to do on the earth. Those promises of the Prophets pertain to Israel's calling in reference to the earthly Jerusalem kingdom.

4 posted on 04/08/2013 6:04:42 AM PDT by AmbassadorForChrist
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5 posted on 04/08/2013 6:29:22 AM PDT by xone
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To: AmbassadorForChrist

Well, AFC, you seem to overlook the fact that Hebrews 11, wherever you care to place it in your “progressive revelation” paradigm, says that such an understanding of heaven as you say didn’t exist in the time of the OT through the time of the earthly ministry of Jesus the Christ, and the hope thereof, was indeed the faith of Abraham and all the faithful of that time.

So, my question is this: Who do I trust to have a better understanding of what is taught in the Old Testament Scriptures and what was believed by those faithful who lived in that era, you or the author of Hebrews, who is ultimately the Holy Spirit. You make the choice easy.


6 posted on 04/08/2013 11:23:58 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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