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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

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Zionism, of course, is an essentially secular movement, essentially validating the right of Jews to live where they wish. A simplistic concept, perhaps, only nutballs question the ability of Americans to live in America, but as a eurocentric movement, it's roots are in a nearly millenia old culture which told Jews to live where and under circumstances directed, and don't whine about it.

The early Zionists were not religious Jews, simply forsaw the future of Europe better than many of their co-religionists.

39 posted on 02/25/2013 6:43:34 PM PST by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do !)
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To: SJackson; Jo Nuvark
Religious Zionism preceded the modern Zionist movement. Orthodox Jews, even those who put a Roman-imposed Rabbinic Ruling ahead of the Torah, pray for a return to Zion 3 times a day. In fact, I would argue that Religious Zionists created the modern Zionist movement, with Herzl merely being a better spokesman to the gentiles. Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Kalischer wrote "Drishat Zion" in 1862, when Herzl was in diapers. When Herzl was learning to read, Rabbi Kalischer was reaching out to non-Orthodox Jewish leaders as well as setting up societies to settle Ottoman-occupied Israe. http://www.traditiononline.org/news/originals/Volume%2016/No.%201/Proto-Zionism.pdf

It took the Dreyfus affair for the assimilated Jews to begin to catch on.

As for JEWS NOT ZIONISTS, I don't consider them Jews. Speaking merely as a Jew, I consider them heretics who pray at the altar of dead Roman soldiers and piss on the Torah. A ruling imposed by gentile swords is inherently invalid. Those who would use it to attack other Jews, while recieving money from Jew killers should be excommunicated and ostracized as the whores they are.
Every word they write is a Chilul Hashem, a defamation of the name of G_d.

41 posted on 02/25/2013 7:14:16 PM PST by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: SJackson

More than seeing and predicting the future of Europe, vis-a-vis the lives of Jews living in Europe, the Zionists saw and admitted more honestly than other Jews what Europe had been, vis-a-vis the lives of Jews and how that past was rooted in an antisemitism that Liberalism was not likely to squelch.


62 posted on 02/27/2013 1:55:43 PM PST by Wuli
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