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To: boatbums
My point was you're expanding this to be substituting for Jesus's sacrifice so that he didn't "have to die on the cross?"

Surely you know better, yes?

56 posted on 02/07/2013 11:10:39 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
My point was you're expanding this to be substituting for Jesus's sacrifice so that he didn't "have to die on the cross?" Surely you know better, yes?

Of course I do, and don't call me shirley. ;o)

However, I was not "expanding" so much as commenting on the article posted from the Catholic Herald and taking it to its logical conclusion. It stated:

    On the other hand, many saints and Church Fathers attest to the spiritual effectiveness of penance. It keeps our focus on God; it is reparation for our sins and the sins of the world.

That sounds to me like man's acts of "penance" are what make payment for sins - not for just his own but for the "sins of the world". I know that this "reparation" is thought to be for the "temporal" punishments due for sin that are not satisfactorily remitted in this life and to alleviate this punishment on those in Purgatory. This goes back to the Catholic dogma of the "Treasury of Merit" and the Communion of the Saints that make indulgences possible.

The treasury of merit consists of the superabundant merits of Christ, as well as the merits of the saints; the treasury of merit is one because of the communion of saints in the Body, Christ being the Head. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches the following about the treasury of merit:

    We also call these spiritual goods of the communion of saints the Church’s treasury, which is “not the sum total of the material goods which have accumulated during the course of the centuries. On the contrary the ‘treasury of the Church’ is the infinite value, which can never be exhausted, which Christ’s merits have before God. They were offered so that the whole of mankind could be set free from sin and attain communion with the Father. In Christ, the Redeemer himself, the satisfactions and merits of his Redemption exist and find their efficacy. This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have followed in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission in the unity of the Mystical Body.” (CCC 1476-1477)

Merit cannot be transferred, but meritorious acts can make satisfaction for another, by giving to God a gift of greater value than what was taken by the sin. This is how Christ’s own actions in His passion and death made satisfaction for the sins of the whole world. (See “Catholic and Reformed Conceptions of the Atonement.”) But it is also the way the meritorious acts of the saints can make satisfaction for others’ debt of temporal punishment. St. Thomas writes, “All the saints intended that whatever they did or suffered for God’s sake should be profitable not only to themselves but to the whole Church.”

The Church, by the authorization of Christ, and through the communion of saints, can draw from the one treasury of merit and satisfaction to reduce or remove the debt of temporal punishment for anyone united to the Body through sanctifying grace. And that is just what an indulgence is:

    An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.
(http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2011/01/indulgences-the-treasury-of-merit-and-the-communion-of-saints/)

I reject the whole idea that somehow man's minuscule deprivations such as is offered in the idea of giving up something "for" Lent can EVER be thought of on the same plane as the once for all sacrifice of Christ on the cross. I reject that mankinds' feeble, and mostly manufactured, sacrifices can be held in a semblance of a bank account and credited to another's account through the actions of others to lessen their penalties for sins that HAVE already been paid in full and no longer held against the child of God.

The storing up treasures in Heaven Jesus spoke of somehow got twisted to imply that some people just have an overflow of treasures there and their surplus can be shared with others to help them get there sooner out of the holding cell of purgatory. Of course, this place does not exist, but that's a discussion for another time. The whole idea negates the sufficiency of Christ and contradicts a great many Scripture passages. If the acts of men can make ANY reparations for sins at all, then it is the same thing as saying the blood of Christ is not enough. I DO know better and I hope you do as well.

62 posted on 02/08/2013 10:54:19 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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