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CNN Religion Blogger Attacks Christian Conservatives for Supporting Mormon Romney
NewsBusters ^ | November 2, 2012 | Ken Shepherd

Posted on 11/02/2012 1:48:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Remember the good ol' days when folks in the media were fond of telling us that conservative evangelical Christians would exhibit anti-Mormon bigotry and fail to vote for Mitt Romney simply because of his religion?

Well now that conservative evangelical Christians seem by-and-large on board with the Romney/Ryan ticket liberal CNN Belief Blog contributor Stephen Prothero has turned the tables and criticized conservative evangelical leaders with, essentially, denying their faith by being pro-Romney. From his November 1 post, "My Take: Billy Graham and Ralph Reed are putting politics before God" (emphases mine):

Why are evangelicals like Billy Graham and Ralph Reed stumping for Mitt Romney? And why are roughly three-quarters of white evangelicals inclined to vote for him?

Because politics matters more to them than religion.

[...]

Until quite recently, many evangelicals saw Mormonism as a dangerous cult spreading false theology and dooming its followers to hell. In fact, only after Romney showed up for a meet and greet with Billy Graham in North Carolina earlier this month did the website of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association erase a reference to Mormonism as a “cult."

Did Mormons all of a sudden change their theology? Did Graham change his definition of a “cult”? Of course not. It just became politically expedient for Graham to declassify Mormonism, given the fact that Romney, a Mormon, was the presidential nominee of his beloved GOP.

Ralph Reed, too, is forsaking his theology for his politics, mobilizing his Atlanta-based Faith and Freedom Coalition to place voter guides in Ohio churches in the run-up to election day.

I am old enough to remember when the main purpose of Reed’s Christian Coalition and other groups on the religious right was to put born-again Christians in the Congress, the White House, and the Supreme Court. And for decades those who were running those groups saw Mormons as non-Christians.

And don't get me started on Mike Huckabee, who in a recent ad says that a vote for Obama is a vote for your own damnation.

Have LDS Church members repudiated the Book of Mormon as “another testament of Jesus Christ” or their view that the Bible is the word of God only “as far as it is correctly translated”? Have they accepted the Trinity? Rejected their teaching that there are many gods?

As Ben Witherington, Albert Mohler, and many other evangelical thinkers continue to insist: no, no, and no.

I used to believe that the purpose of the religious right was to infuse American politics with Christian politicians and Christian politics. I no longer believe that. The purpose of the religious right is to use the Christian God for political purposes. Why any Christian, conservative or liberal, can say "Amen" to that is beyond me.

I am perfectly happy to see Reed stump for Romney in Ohio and Graham plump for Romney in an ad in The Wall Street Journal. Just don’t tell me they are doing so as Christians. They are doing so as shills for the GOP.

First off, the Huckabee ad, as I explained yesterday, has nothing to do with damnation or hell. But to Prothero's larger point, plenty of evangelical Christians still have strong disagreements with Mormon teaching, but they recognize that secular politics is not about selecting a national pastor but electing a president, a civil officer, not an ecclesiastic one. Secondly, Ralph Reed has long been disassociated with the Christian Coalition and a thoroughly partisan Republican activist for years, so it's ludicrous for Prothero to hit Reed for partisanship.

You'll notice that Prothero insisted that the Christian Coalition was founded "to put born-again Christians" in all three branches of the federal government. While that doubtless was and probably remains a desire of many folks within the Christian Coalition, it appears nowhere in the group's mission statement, available online and excerpted here (emphases mine):

The Coalition is a political organization, made up of pro-family Americans who care deeply about ensuring that government serves to strengthen and preserve, rather than threaten, our families and our values. To that end, we work continuously to identify, educate and mobilize Christians for effective political action.

Our Mission:

•Represent the pro-family point of view before local councils, school boards, state legislatures and Congress
•Speak out in the public arena and in the media
•Train leaders for effective social and political action
•Inform pro-family voters about timely issues and legislation
•Protest anti-Christian bigotry and defend the rights of people of faith

What's more, a review of the Christian Coalitions site finds no explicit "vote for" pitches for candidates for federal office, although it's clear the organization is friendly to Romney and conservatives and highly critical of liberal Democrats and President Obama. The Coalition does have a 2012 legislative agenda, which, among other things, wants to make the Bush tax cuts permanent and repeal ObamaCare.

Prothero has a right to his opinion, but the Boston University religion scholar really needs to tighten up his argument with facts, rather than misleading innuendo.


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Other Christian; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: christianvote; cnn; evangelicals; ldschurch; mormons; obama; romney; romney2012
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1 posted on 11/02/2012 1:48:14 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This Evangelical Christian Conservative is obeying God and speaking out for TRUTH........

I will proudly cast my vote for ROMNEY /RYAN on Tuesday.
I am NOT voting on his faith. I don’t agree with his faith.
I AM VOTING for his policies. The policies I don’t agree with we will fight for later.

IF OBAMA wins again, Christianity will be forced to go underground!!


2 posted on 11/02/2012 1:53:21 PM PDT by pollywog ("O Thou who changest not, abide with me.".......)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

When it comes to voting for a Mormon or Muslim or a Black Theologic racist Christian or whatever the hell Obama is, I go with the Mormon. Every time.

Gee don’t these guy’s believe in diversity???? LMAO. In everything except if you disagree with them.


3 posted on 11/02/2012 1:53:27 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Muslim or Mormon?

I vote Mormon everytime because they have American values.

4 posted on 11/02/2012 1:54:10 PM PDT by Keen-Minded
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

In a choice between a mormon and a gay muslim marxist, go with the mormon.


5 posted on 11/02/2012 1:54:10 PM PDT by marron
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

CNN religion blogger is NOT even a Christian. OK you may be asking how I know this? Truth is I do not even know who he or she is, but I just KNOW thhat they are NOT Christian, if they were they would not be “a cnn blogger”

Just as I KNOW that the WashPost religion editor whatever is NOT a Christian.

Christians are NOT capable of supporting a party or candidates that want the Name of Jesus removed from classroom public/ square etc, or that want homosexuality taught to children and who support abortion in any way shape or form

So yes I have NO idea who the cnn person is, but yes I know that if they were Christian they would have nothing to do with CNN or Democrats


6 posted on 11/02/2012 1:55:04 PM PDT by Friendofgeorge (ASARAH PALIN 2012 OR BUST)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Man, are these people desperate.


7 posted on 11/02/2012 1:55:10 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Venturer

PING!


8 posted on 11/02/2012 1:55:45 PM PDT by Morpheus2009
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
This has been one of the goals of the Democrats political marketing in this campaign. Divide by religion. From his Facebook, Stephen Prothero is not just a big Obama guy, self described Humanist and radical liberal, he even has a photo of him with a Karl Marx temporary tattoo as his profile pic.

His website:

Why should the Christian Right listen to him again?

9 posted on 11/02/2012 1:57:02 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hey Prothero:

People aren’t voting for Mormonism, dumbs***. They’re voting for the [viable] candidate more likely to preserve religious freedoms and curtail government attacks thereupon.

In other words, they ARE voting in the interest of their religion.

I admire Benjamin Franklin. But he was a Deist. Does that mean I’m going to Hell because Deism doesn’t mesh with my personal beliefs? I also admire the work of the Dalai Lama, but WAIT! He’s not Christian. Does that make me a Tibetan Bhuddist shill too?

Ugh.


10 posted on 11/02/2012 1:57:42 PM PDT by verum ago (Some people must truly be in love, for only love can be so blind.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This was predictable. I am not surprised they are playing the “religion card” the weekend before the election. Won’t do any good.


11 posted on 11/02/2012 1:59:13 PM PDT by Pete (Check out an 11 year old entrepreneur: boodlies.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

My grandfather up until the time he died hated mormons. He would always tell us the story of our relatives that died in the “Buchanan’s Blunder” at Mormon hands. Don’t think this has as much legs as it would have if Obama used faith as a centerpiece, but after sweeping his own under the rug to win 2008 it is a little late to be reviving it now.


12 posted on 11/02/2012 1:59:18 PM PDT by HenryArmitage (it was not meant that we should voyage far.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This guy’s logic seems to be that you have to become a Mormon if Romney is president. WTH?


13 posted on 11/02/2012 1:59:59 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
So, if Obama wins, we get an Antichrist-type .... the blogger is an Obamabot idiot ... makes no sense. And they must support Obama's gay marriage agenda and infanticide.



http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/dnc-artwork-likens-obama-to-jesus.html



http://www.examiner.com/article/does-a-dnc-souvenir-calendar-compare-barack-obama-to-jesus-christ
14 posted on 11/02/2012 2:04:46 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You can’t be a CNN contributor or employee and be a Christian. So what does this guy really mean?


15 posted on 11/02/2012 2:08:28 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Remember how hot under the collar Ted Turner got when he saw CNN employees with ash on their foreheads on Ash Wednesday years ago?


16 posted on 11/02/2012 2:14:30 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; All
From the article, citing Prothero: Did Mormons all of a sudden change their theology? Did Graham change his definition of a “cult”? Of course not. It just became politically expedient for Graham to declassify Mormonism, given the fact that Romney, a Mormon, was the presidential nominee of his beloved GOP.

Reality: The Billy Graham Evangelistic Asso. left itself wide open to this attack from all sides by politically -- expedience-wise -- removing all cult references from its Web site immediately after Romney's visit to Billy Graham.

Hence, Romney, for the Mormon church PR arm, becomes the "ambassador" on behalf of Mormonism to Christianity to get them to remove Mormonism as "cult" status not just Billy Graham-wise...but eventually ALL of Christendom...

Politics trumping truth...

...A disgrace to Christianity...

17 posted on 11/02/2012 2:15:53 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; All
From Ken Shepherd in this article: ...plenty of evangelical Christians still have strong disagreements with Mormon teaching, but they recognize that secular politics is not about selecting a national pastor but electing a president, a civil officer, not an ecclesiastic one.

Well, I've addressed this in my tagline of late:

Gee...I simply didn't know that Mitt Romney pretended to be a "god in embryo" only on Sundays!!!!

18 posted on 11/02/2012 2:18:27 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Ted is bipolar so what he thought he saw was most likely different from reality. Good advice here ~ never assume you understand what bipolar people mean ~


19 posted on 11/02/2012 2:19:15 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

choice, morman or muslim, loves american, hates america and is marx...JFK as a catholic went through religious bigotry also...we aren’t choosing a pastor or priest but a president..


20 posted on 11/02/2012 2:24:01 PM PDT by goat granny (.)
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To: All; goat granny
JFK as a catholic went through religious bigotry also...we aren’t choosing a pastor or priest but a president..

Already sent this to GG in a previous thread...so this is for others interested in how Lds "prophets" operate:

Read the second line in the chart below...and then inform all of us what promises did Kennedy ever make that comes even close to the sacred temple promise Romney has made to the Mormon church?

Then...continue on and read the Lds "prophets'" statements below (along with other Lds general authorities)...And then, you be sure to please show us where the Pope has made similar spiritual-political imposing statements such as what you find from those Lds leaders below...except for the first three statements, ALL of them were made by Lds leaders between the 1960s and 1980s...

The bottom-line: No one will be able to reinforce GG's strawman case of a Kennedy comparison equivalent...Why? Because you can't argue from a void.

Therefore it's no parallel...

Lds Leader Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) By contrast: Roman Catholic leader (like a Pope or John F. Kennedy) Any similar statements made by a Pope or Kennedy
Mitt Romney as POTUS??? Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] Kennedy made no similar vows to the Catholic church that Romney has made to the Mormon church No comparative vow
John Taylor Lds 'Prophet' #3 “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) No parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
John Taylor Lds 'Prophet' #3 The LDS Church -- in 2001 -- thought it well to pull this quote from John Taylor to emphasize it: "The Lord...is desirous to show us how to save ourselves, how to bless ourselves temporally and spiritually, intellectually, morally, physically, POLITICALLY..." (Lds Church owned Deseret News, Nov. 19, 1865, p. 2, as quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor (2001, p. 178). Also from p. 178: "The idea of strictly religious feelings with us, and nothing else, is out of the question...Our religion is more comprehensive than that of the world...it embraces all the interests of humanity in every conceivable phrase..." (Original source: The Gospel Kingdom, 1943, p. 168) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Orson Hyde President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Heber J. Grant Lds 'Prophet' #7 "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Harold B. Lee Lds 'Prophet' #11 ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Spencer Kimball Lds 'Prophet' #12 "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Ezra Taft Benson Lds 'Prophet' #13 Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #5 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney?) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #9 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt?) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #10 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt?) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
B.H. Roberts LDS Historian and Seventy. Note: Roberts was an elected Democratic Congressman from Utah in 1898 -- but was NEVER seated by Congress because of grass roots uproar vs. Roberts, who took a THIRD simultaneous wife in the early 1890s. Grass roots America collected 7 MILLION signatures on 28 banners and presented them to Congress...in pre-mass media 1800s! “[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a POLITICAL INSTITUTION THAT SHALL HOLD SWAY OVER ALL THE EARTH; TO WHICH ALL OTHER GOVERNMENTS WILL BE SUBORDINATE AND BY WHICH THEY WILL BE DOMINATED.” The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180 No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence

21 posted on 11/02/2012 2:27:36 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Colofornian

Maybe Rev. Graham and his son understand the dire situation we are in. I pray that you and your crew here wake up before next Tuesday.


22 posted on 11/02/2012 2:46:33 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Maybe Rev. Graham and his son understand the dire situation we are in

I make a distinction 'tween Billy Graham's actions late in that one week (meeting with Mitt Romney & endorsing him) vs. what his Evangelistic Association did late that ensuing weekend -- which was to scrub the Web site of all "cult" references...including references of Mormonism as a cult.

"Dire situations" may call for endorsements; but not for scrubbing truth...

23 posted on 11/02/2012 2:54:44 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Colofornian
So now you imagine yourself the authority on what information someone else's website should contain? My goodness, talk about a "god-in-embryo".
24 posted on 11/02/2012 3:07:13 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

FR is a conservative board, I take that to mean it is not just politically conservative. If it was just political and not religiously conservative, it would be a Libertarian board.

All these posters claiming they don’t care if they have Mormonism for their president are not conservatives, plain and simple. Are they Libertarians? Perhaps, whatever they are it is not conservative.

“Conservative,” to me, means one who seeks to conserve, or preserve, true values, whether political or religious, and is opposed to the corruption of either. If Mormonism isn’t a departure from the Pilgrim heritage and Christian values of this country, I’ll eat my hat.

Truth is, we have, as a nation, degenerated into a irreligious people. Even so called conservatives, just read the posts. The only thing that matters nowadays is the political side of things, most could care less about what is happening to the religious side of things. A sign of the times, the “falling away” that must come first in order to prepare the way of antichrist.


25 posted on 11/02/2012 3:10:17 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
So now you imagine yourself the authority on what information someone else's website should contain?

What? You mean I can't even compliment the Billy Graham Evangelistic Asso. for having that info up for how many yrs now -- and conversely removing it for the less-than-past-month?

Now even any and all critiques of this nature have to be scrubbed as well?...To supposedly be censored by the anti-First Amendment types like yourself???

Are you the "Big Brother" of political commentators...telling people what they should or shouldn't comment upon?

(Show me your divine "badge" that wields such authority)

26 posted on 11/02/2012 3:17:23 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: sasportas

FR is not exclusively a Christian board. Period. Christians have no monopoly on conservatism or morality.


27 posted on 11/02/2012 3:17:32 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: verum ago
I admire Benjamin Franklin. But he was a Deist. Does that mean I’m going to Hell because Deism doesn’t mesh with my personal beliefs?

What a nonsensical statement...

Are you saying there's some sort of "anti-admiration" society goin' 'round telling you who you can't personally admire?

Because if there isn't, you're addressing some sort of comments that aren't even out there floating around.

28 posted on 11/02/2012 3:22:21 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Colofornian

Hahahaha! Yeah, I’m the one that pressured Billy Graham to remeove references to Mormonism on his site. Remind me, was that before or after I aimed a hurricane at New York city and caused Mr. Obama’s poll numbers to drop? Excuse me for lighting your straw men on fire.


29 posted on 11/02/2012 3:23:52 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: marron
'In a choice between a mormon and a gay muslim marxist, go with the mormon.'

YOU MEAN THIS MORMON?

PRESIDENT MITT

31 posted on 11/02/2012 3:43:02 PM PDT by jimsin
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To: jjotto

I guess what I said went over your head. Let me break it down for you:

1. This is not Japan or some similar type country having no Christian heritage. The Pilgrims were here first, their types played a major role in the founding of this country.

2. When Joseph Smith started his golden plates religion, the 19th century, Christian America was appalled, everyone knew it was a fraud and not the Christianity of our predecessors. Which is why, to find them a place apart from Christian opposition, they moved to Utah.

3. “Conservative,” by definition, seeks to conserve. FR being an American conservative site, would seek to conserve America’s Christian heritage, and would be opposed to such things as Mormonism, a departure from Christian beliefs that long predated Mormonism.

3. Hence, your assertion that FR is not a Christian board is false by definition. This being America with a Christian heritage going back to the Pilgrims, and FR being a conservative board, by definition it is Christian.


32 posted on 11/02/2012 3:56:41 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This Christian will enthusiastically vote for the decent Mormon over the Obamination.


33 posted on 11/02/2012 4:02:48 PM PDT by all the best (`~!)
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To: sasportas
...your assertion that FR is not a Christian board is false by definition...

You have no idea what FR management says about this subject, do you?

34 posted on 11/02/2012 4:03:28 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Yeah, I’m the one that pressured Billy Graham to remeove references to Mormonism on his site

(Well, you've certainly sanctioned/embraced it after-the-fact by critiquing those who critique that scrubbing of truth from his site)

35 posted on 11/02/2012 4:04:48 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Colofornian
Are you saying there's some sort of "anti-admiration" society goin' 'round telling you who you can't personally admire?

No, I'm not saying that. Apparently Mr. Prothero thinks that Christians endorsing Romney are going against their own beliefs by doing so, that they are endorsing Mormonism and forsaking their own religion for political purposes (he calls them shills for the GOP). That is what I'm objecting to: his intimation that endorsing someone whom is of beliefs that your own religion condemns is somehow apostasy.

Because if there isn't, you're addressing some sort of comments that aren't even out there floating around.

Did you actually read Prothero's piece?
36 posted on 11/02/2012 4:15:15 PM PDT by verum ago (Some people must truly be in love, for only love can be so blind.)
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To: verum ago; All
Did you actually read Prothero's piece?

(I clicked on the original link to Newsbusters, and read the portion Shepherd cited Prothero...which was 11 of Prothero's 15 paragraphs...so I read most of it)

Apparently Mr. Prothero thinks that Christians endorsing Romney are going against their own beliefs by doing so, that they are endorsing Mormonism and forsaking their own religion for political purposes (he calls them shills for the GOP). That is what I'm objecting to: his intimation that endorsing someone whom is of beliefs that your own religion condemns is somehow apostasy.

#1...re: "endorsing" Mormonism...I don't see most of the Christian groups or individuals openly endorsing Romney giving any qualifications or caveats re: his Mormonism, do you? (So what else do they leave others to conclude?)

Analogy: If you endorsed a pro-abort candidate because they were semi-conservative on a lot of issues, and the other major candidate was even worse abortion wise, if you endorsed that candidate without acknowledging at least some problems with their abortion stance, aren't you embracing/elevating/endorsing pro-abortionism to some extent?

*************************

#2 Allow me to use this other analogy (from the Old Testament):

Saul was Israel's first king (they had "judges" before then, but were clamoring for a king to be like the people groups around them).

The Lord relented, and Saul, who eventually fell out of kilter relationship-wise with both God and David, became that first king.

A Biblical commentator notes in 1 Samuel that the writer of 1 Samuel's narrative "show[s] the people's and God's initial approval of him. Saul is presented as Israel's deliverer, remarkably similar to the judges. While all Israel cowered at the threat of the Ammonites, Saul rallied the tribes and defeated the enemy. Just as during the time of the judges, the Spirit of God came upon him and he had victory in the battle. At the conclusion of the story, we see again that Saul's mighty deeds were known and acknowledged by the people. It is in light of these narratives that the subsequent failure of Saul is explained. A valiant and mighty leader is not necessarily a godly one...Saul failed as king because he did not provide the spiritual leadership for the nation." (NIV Compact Bible Commentary, p. 225)

So, just as the Israelites cowered at the threat of the Ammonites of that time, today's conservatives cower at the threat of another four Obama years and the threat of Muslim terrorists. Just as Saul alleviated some of that threat, "King Romney" is likewise seen as a threat alleviator.

And, just as Saul failed to provide spiritual leadership, so will Romney, whose beliefs are closer to polytheistic paganism than to Christianity.

Somehow, Christian voters for Romney don't seem to mind that they are openly endorsing -- without qualification or caveat -- a man who...
...(a) like 15-20% of all Mormons, believes he is a competitor to THE God as a rival god [otherwise known as open idolatry];
...and (b) would "feature" a man in the White House...as THE Leader of the Free World...praying -- in a crisis situation -- to a foreign god who is no god at all.

What kind of "leadership" is it when a nation forgoes the ONE AND ONLY TRUE God as its Ultimate Leader?

37 posted on 11/02/2012 4:43:47 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Colofornian

Good post, at least to those of us who are curious as to what the Bible might have to say concerning the current situation. To the atheists, the irreligious (they seem to be legion around here), those of non-Christian religions, Mormons and such like, once they saw your post used scripture they probably read no more than the first few lines.


38 posted on 11/02/2012 5:17:10 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Their last hope is to suppress the GOP vote.


39 posted on 11/02/2012 5:20:16 PM PDT by marron
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To: Colofornian

You support the CNN blogger and repost your anti-Mormon spam.

Now *there’s* a surprise!

Not.

Believe me, we get you point now - for the hundredth time.

Give it a rest.


40 posted on 11/02/2012 5:34:06 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: sasportas

If you have a problem with Romney’s religion, just vote for the Conservative Catholic Paul Ryan.


41 posted on 11/02/2012 5:37:48 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: sasportas; Jim Robinson

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2953497/posts

And I decided to make my anti-Obama vote count in the only way it might actually do some good. I marked my absentee ballot for Romney-Ryan and voted straight Republican down ticket and no on every ballot issue that would raise taxes, spend money or aid big government or help greedy, thieving socialist workers unions.

To hell with Obama! To hell with Governor Moonbeam’s taxes and trains! To hell with gun-grabbing Feinstein! To hell with the godless Democrats and their big spending socialist plans for us, their tax payer funded high speed trains to nowhere, their planned societies, their greedy socialist worker unions, their abortionist/homosexualist agendas, their class and race warfare and their foodstamp and “free” birth control socialist utopia!

And to hell with the Democrats’ ridiculous wars against gas, oil, coal, industry, farming, mining, logging, capitalism, Christianity, morality, and against freedom itself!
And I urge all conservatives to do the same regardless of where they live and no matter how blue their state or district. Every vote counts!!

Obama and his corrupt socialist Democrats must be sent packing by the widest margins possible, even in the bluest of blue states.

Vote the corrupt constitution trampling socialist bastards OUT!!

1 posted on Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:52:21 PM by Jim Robinson
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42 posted on 11/02/2012 5:48:12 PM PDT by MEG33 (O Lord, Guide Our Nation)
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To: Colofornian


Vote Romney/Ryan

43 posted on 11/02/2012 5:52:39 PM PDT by MEG33 (O Lord, Guide Our Nation)
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To: D-fendr; All
You support the CNN blogger...

The main problem with posters like you is that you don't allow context to define your words...like the word "support" in this case...

If you really want to have a clue about alleged conservatives "supporting" an out-and-out liberal, all you have to do is read this article: Reid Gets Warm Reception at BYU ...

But, of course, D-fendr, even though this article has been referenced numerous times on FR threads in the past five years, you haven't seem to care about this exact instance of "conservative" support of liberals...

Hmm...Now why would BYU invite Harry Reid to an all-student, all-prof guest speaker forum???

#1 Perhaps it was so Reid could tell BYU students: "I am a Democrat because I am a Mormon, not in spite of it."
#2 Perhaps it was because BYU officials knew that the BYU audience present on campus on that day (Oct. 9, 2007) would appreciate Harry Reid's open critique of Christians: "They [Evangelical Christians] are the most anti-Christian people I can imagine, the people from the Christian far right."

Hmmm...So the Mormon leadership that Mitt Romney bows down to was giving Harry Reid an open venue to slime Evangelical Christians, eh?

And did you, D-fendr, ever defend Christians against this onslaught from Harry Reid and BYU and the Mormon leadership? Or do you "support" Harry Reid's critique of Evangelical Christians?

Oh, and btw, just so we know how the BYU "faithful" received Harry Reid's message...From the above linked article, written by the Lds church owned Deseret News: At the end of his speech, Reid earned a standing ovation from a small percentage of the crowd and applause from the rest.

There...a perfect context for the word "support"...in the way you meant it, D-fendr...

44 posted on 11/02/2012 6:27:12 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: D-fendr; verum ago; All
You support the CNN blogger...

OK, since I spent the last post providing a better contextual example of how you meant to use the word "support," let's look at the CNN blogger's main point: I used to believe that the purpose of the religious right was to infuse American politics with Christian politicians and Christian politics. I no longer believe that. The purpose of the religious right is to use the Christian God for political purposes.

Do I "support" this belief of Prothero? (No)

But has the Christian right left itself vulnerable to critiques from the left as well as the right along these lines? (Yes)

And I said that in my first post on this thread...post #17: Reality: The Billy Graham Evangelistic Asso. left itself wide open to this attack from all sides by politically -- expedience-wise -- removing all cult references from its Web site immediately after Romney's visit to Billy Graham.

That's not "supporting" a given blogger; it's recognizing that Evangelical leaders have left themselves vulnerable!

Even a good coach of his own team will measure up his "weaknesses" vs. upcoming opponents!

In post #37, I pursued this line again: I don't see most of the Christian groups or individuals openly endorsing Romney giving any qualifications or caveats re: his Mormonism, do you? (So what else do they leave others to conclude?)

I was stating this on FR before ever hearing of this blogger...

So, rather than liberal-like, simply engaging in slime-by-association spamming, D-fendr, why don't you suggest how Evangelical Christian leaders should handle Prothero's questions...questions like:

* Did Mormons all of a sudden change their theology?
* Did Graham change his definition of a “cult”?
* Have LDS Church members repudiated the Book of Mormon as “another testament of Jesus Christ” or their view that the Bible is the word of God only “as far as it is correctly translated”?
* Have they accepted the Trinity?
* Rejected their teaching that there are many gods?

[Verum ago, perhaps you could also suggest how Evangelical Christian leaders should handle the above questions...because whether you have a CNN blogger, or some pew-sitter in Midwestville, somebody is going to continue to ask these & other similar Qs...& you can't just pull out D-fendr's handy-dandy slime-by-association FAQ response]

45 posted on 11/02/2012 6:41:49 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: MEG33

(Sorry, voted for Virgil Goode)


46 posted on 11/02/2012 6:56:12 PM PDT by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Well, being Catholic myself, the idea is total B.S. How many years has it been since JFK, who was a jerk and overhyped anyways, sure went a long way to convert us all to Roman Catholicism, RIGHT?!!! Or how about Bush as a born-again Christian, or George Washington as an Episcopalian, and active, honorable member of the Episcopal Vestry, yes, we have really converted to any of those religions.

In fact, if there’s anything I have to say, think about it, did Romney pass Prohibition of Booze in Massachusetts as governor? Did he demand that everyone believe his marriage to Ann goes on in the afterlife, as Mormons believe. No he didn’t, and there’s plenty more besides.

Anyways, the big story is, I would rather have some guy, even if he happens to be Mormon, who has a record of leaving me and my religion well enough alone versus a guy who is a narcissist and demands we all pretty much worship him, and who has no demonstrateable concern for one of his own appointees being neglected like a little pet left out in the rain and torn apart by vicious wild dogs. I pray and hate to think of the bad example that Obama also sets for his daughters and kids all over the U.S. with his wretched behavior.


47 posted on 11/02/2012 6:57:17 PM PDT by Morpheus2009
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To: MEG33

Not sure why you post this to me. Because I am opposed to Mormonism does not equate to being for the commie Obama. I doubt that there is anybody more anti-Obama than myself. I ALWAYS vote Republican down the line...at least so far. The Democrat party is the godless party, their national convention in NC proved that beyond all doubt.

I’m not opposed to Romney on a personal level, what I opposed to is the mainlining of Mormonism. I’ve never seen such a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” election.


48 posted on 11/02/2012 6:59:10 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas

We are not voting for a pastor, rabbi or priest..We are voting for a president.


49 posted on 11/02/2012 7:11:04 PM PDT by MEG33 (O Lord, Guide Our Nation)
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To: Colofornian
* Did Mormons all of a sudden change their theology?
* Did Graham change his definition of a “cult”?
* Have LDS Church members repudiated the Book of Mormon as “another testament of Jesus Christ” or their view that the Bible is the word of God only “as far as it is correctly translated”?
* Have they accepted the Trinity?
* Rejected their teaching that there are many gods?

[Verum ago, perhaps you could also suggest how Evangelical Christian leaders should handle the above questions


I'll bite, (assuming FR loads!):

* Did Mormons all of a sudden change their theology?
No.
* Did Graham change his definition of a “cult”?
Not that I know of.
* Have LDS Church members repudiated the Book of Mormon as “another testament of Jesus Christ” or their view that the Bible is the word of God only “as far as it is correctly translated”?
No.
* Have they accepted the Trinity?
No.
* Rejected their teaching that there are many gods?
No.


So, rather than liberal-like, simply engaging in slime-by-association spamming, D-fendr, why don't you suggest how Evangelical Christian leaders should handle Prothero's questions...questions like
[the questions above]

Answer them the way I have. Then realize that since it's not like Mittens is going to make Mormonism the state religion, it's not his personal beliefs that matters vis-a-vis how to vote based on religion. It's how he's going to treat religious freedoms and government encroachment thereupon in general, which is a heck of a lot better than the lying Godless Marxist bastard we have in office right now.

you can't just pull out D-fendr's handy-dandy slime-by-association FAQ response

*shrug* Had to go to plan B.

We live in a practical world. There are only two viable candidates for the office of President of the United States of America this year. One is a Mormon who shares most stances on religion-related governmental issues with Christians. The other is the aforementioned lying Godless Marxist bastard, Barack Obama. Being a practical world, we should take the better of the two alternatives, and that would be Romney.

HOWEVER, living in a state that is totally in the bag for Romney already, I will vote for a third party whom I find more agreeable. But if I didn't like in a "solid Romney" state, I would vote for Romney.

I suspect there is an irreconcilable difference in our opinions. Let me ask you a question as a test:

If Mitt Romney had the exact same stance on every issue as you, but believed in a set of Gods that were flying hairy lava lamps, would he have your vote?

My answer to that question is yes; it's the actions he takes, not his beliefs that impact the lives of citizens.
50 posted on 11/02/2012 7:23:45 PM PDT by verum ago (Some people must truly be in love, for only love can be so blind.)
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